New Dodge Dart?

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October 28th, 2012 at 5:58:53 PM permalink
s2dbaker
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 13
Posts: 241
Quote: Face
NO! Because then they'll rebrand some shit-box as "Cuda" and I'll go completely off the rails
You have a point, that new Dart looks more like a Nash Metropolitan.

BRING BACK RAMBLER!!
BRING BACK RAMBLER!!
BRING BACK RAMBLER!!
/chanting
October 28th, 2012 at 6:16:41 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Face
NO! Because then they'll rebrand some shit-box as "Cuda" and I'll go completely off the rails


I believe a Baracuda is already in the works. If they bring back the 'Cuda submodel remains to be seen.

Worst rebrand had to be a 1980s or early 1990s 4-4-2. One mag changed the meaning t0 4-cylinder, 4-sale, 2-expensive.

Don't even get *me* started on the Mitsubishi Challenger.....
The President is a fink.
October 28th, 2012 at 6:45:28 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Did 442 stand for 4 brl carb, 4 on the floor, dual exhaust?
In the 60's it was one fast car.

If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:25:20 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Evenbob
Did 442 stand for 4 brl carb, 4 on the floor, dual exhaust?
In the 60's it was one fast car.


Sure does. Growing up, my Pops had a '72 'Cuda as a daily driver, and a 442 as a winter car. You know, back when men were men and AAA was a local farmer with a tractor and a chain.

Quote: AZDuffman
I believe a Baracuda is already in the works.


No. NO!! Say it ain't so...I don't think I could handle it. I got that cold chill up my spine that brought tears to my eyes when I read this.

This rebranding thing kills me. Charger, Challenger, HEMI,...now Dart. I mean, I get it. Dart was yester-decade's compact car, smaller than a full sized Dodge and cheaper than a Plymouth. This new Dart is today's compact car. It makes sense...on the surface.

But anyone who knows the history of the Dart is a car guy, and ask any car guy what a Dart is and one image comes to mind - The late 60's early 70's "small" car with an absurd 440 under the hood. A hot rod, a drag racer, a green to green rocket for the boys returning home from war. That is a Dart. A 4cyl econo-box? I'd laugh, but it's not funny.

Same with "Charger". You want to capitalize on brand recognition? Fine. But who knows what a "Charger" is? Car guys. And what does "Charger" mean to car guys? It means Buddy Baker breaking the 200mph barrier in NASCAR, it means Richard Petty's dominance, it means Bo and Luke Duke tootin' Dixie 20 feet over a fallen bridge. It is NOT whatever the hell that thing is that I saw a soccer mom park at the local Walmart.

HEMI? Please.

I want it to be 1968 all over again as much as the next car guy, but please, not like this. Those cars have built their reputations and their value all by themselves, don't suck the epic out of them by chaining them to these new, souless, passion lacking, plasticky, uninspiring piles of mediocrity.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:40:49 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
And another thing, while I'm all fired up. These new Fords? What the bloody hell is going on with those?

I mean, good job Ford for rescuing Aston Martin. But goddamnit.... an Aston is something. It's not "just a car". A person that "just wants a car" isn't paying $150,000. No one has a DB9 for "A to B".

Do they think that making all their A to Bs look like a DB9 is a good thing? I mean, I like them. That new Fusion looks sharp, and I can immediately say "Hey, looks like a DB9. Cool." But that raises the coolness of a Fusion by a factor of 4, maybe. "My quarter mil DBS looks just like a Fusion!" lowers the coolness of that by a factor of one bajillion! Who thinks of these things? It drives me mad!!

It's like everyone's infected with Porschitis. Let's just make everything the same, look the same, hell, we'll even name them the same. We need a bloody trailblazer, someone to say "to hell with biting everyone's style, I'll make my own". It shouldn't be "cool, looks like an Aston", it should be "that Fusion looks badass, THAT'S how to design a car." It should stand on its own merit, not yank everything down to its level.

If rdw ever get his presidency, I can only hope he elects me Ministry of Keepin' It Real.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:48:55 PM permalink
rdw4potus
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 10
Posts: 147
Quote: Face

If rdw ever get his presidency, I can only hope he elects me Ministry of Keepin' It Real.


lol! I shall:-)

And we'll keep Fords from looking like Astons, Hyundais from looking like Jags, Smarts from existing, etc.

Now, question for you. If the only retro Charger were the SRT model, would it change your view of the revival? Basically, if the thought at the company was "Hey, we used to make an extremely awesome insanely overpowered car that looked cool as hell. let's do that again!" and not "hey, let's make a car that looks kind of like an old Charger, but let's make it suck in every way. Oh, and let's make a better version, too. We can sell that one for twice as much."
I'm not wearing any pants, film at 11
October 28th, 2012 at 11:17:01 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Face


I want it to be 1968 all over again as much as the next car guy


I was 19 in 68 and surrounded by these cars.
We knew something was going on, but being
right in the middle of it was confusing. There
was a muscle car war going on. There were
Saturday night drag strips in every small town,
We'd go where some country road had a half
mile of perfectly straight asphalt, and the Cuda's
and Camaro's and 442's and Super Bee's and
Mustangs would go one on one against each
other.

It was heaven, lots of beer, never any cops, just
smoking rubber. My buddy had an SS 427 Chevy
Chevelle with a 410 rear end and when I rode with
him, the G force was so great I couldn't lift my hand
thru the first 3 gears. It looked just like this:

If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 28th, 2012 at 11:24:59 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: rdw4potus
lol! I shall:-)

And we'll keep Fords from looking like Astons, Hyundais from looking like Jags, Smarts from existing, etc.

Now, question for you. If the only retro Charger were the SRT model, would it change your view of the revival? Basically, if the thought at the company was "Hey, we used to make an extremely awesome insanely overpowered car that looked cool as hell. let's do that again!" and not "hey, let's make a car that looks kind of like an old Charger, but let's make it suck in every way. Oh, and let's make a better version, too. We can sell that one for twice as much."


Thank you, sir, I shall not let you down ;)

As to your question, no. Nothing will change my view of the revival. And here's why...

I know my rants usually focus on the gut-less, eco-friendliness of today vs the hoods filled with volcanic thunder of yesterday, but that's not entirely my point. I mean, if you were to scale both eras, it's much the same. Today's Charger has a variety of models, which, if I remember correctly, start at 2.7L, then 3.5L, on to the 5.7 HEMI, and then the 6.1 HEMI in the SRT-8. And they all have increasing brake and suspension mods, etc and so on. I don't ever recall seeing an SRT-8 (and I've seen a few) and thinking "what garbage". I do like it, it's sharp and it's cool. Likewise, to use an early 70's 'Cuda as an example because I'm more familiar with it, you had the "family car" with a 3.2L and brown paint and beige interior, or you could bump it up to a 7.2L (440) six pack, and get the brake/suspension boost with the AAR model, and every level in between. So it's not simply an issue of comparing Richard Petty's Charger Daytona Superbird with someone's mom's 6 cylinder grocery getter. Even a car like a 'Cuda, which gives me non stop, chronic, mental orgasms, had a model that sucked pretty bad, with a non-economical, underpowered, unreliable, 6cyl engine, along with leaf springs, drum brakes, and baby poop paint.

No, performance has nothing to do with it. Unlike the Corvette and Mustang, which have stayed with us and evolved, these cars have died. What they are and what they mean has settled and cemented. They harken back to a time when, as I joked with EB, men were men. They were simple, they were dangerous. You could fix them yourselves, and every problem was solved by displacement and your right foot. 6mpg? And your point is? Leaf springs? Damn straight. Bias ply? Is there any other? There was no computer nonsense to go awry, there was no nanny-state ABS or traction control, there was no SatNav, no crumple zones, no Pioneer sound system with Dolby 5.1, no back up cameras/DirecTv, no 12 airbags with radar crash detection. There was only a big steel door that clunked when you shut it, the sweet, sweet smell of an old vinyl seat, and the siren song of a hard and dirty V8 echoing out of glasspack mufflers. There was no "wheels that slip to the wheels that grip", no "one wheeler peelers", you tromped that sumbitch at a green light and all that's left are two fat, black snakes and a cloud of unconverted exhaust. It's a beautiful thing.

It's a passion thing. Some have countered saying new cars are safer, more reliable, less fussy, more economical, and above all, faster. And they're completely right. That new Dodge Neon Dart would probably blow the old Dart's doors off hotlapping Watkins Glen. But that's not the point. New cars just don't have "it". The thunder, the fear, the danger, the attitude, the passion...it's just not there. Certain words convey "it"; 'Cuda, Torino, Chevelle, Road Runner, GTX...one word says "it" all by themselves. Used to be the same for Charger, Challenger, GTO, Dart, but now... no more.

TL;DR analogy - '68 Charger is to '10 Charger as pre-50's single deck Blackjack is to Carnival Cruise's 6:5, double only 9 and 10 with 5% ante Blackjack. You can call them the same names, but goddamnit, They Are Not The Same!

I like this

But do not tell me it is this
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 29th, 2012 at 12:56:50 AM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Evenbob
I was 19 in 68 and surrounded by these cars.


Same (not the 19 in '68, obviously). Growing up, we went everywhere in that '72 'Cuda. Winter comes, break out the 442. My mom had a Cobra, one of the garbage, mid 70's ones with 180hp, but a Cobra nonetheless. That came and went for one of those Indy Pace Car 5.0 Mustangs. Her wintermobile was an old Malibu. Pops wrecked the 442 showing off for me in the winter and replaced it with a Nova.

All I knew growing up was American Muscle. I just thought that's how it was, and how it always would be. There was nothing else. I knew of vinyl seats, that smell sends me back like no other, not to just my "car guy happy place" but to the very root of my childhood. I knew there was these pipes in the back that gurgled and popped and sometimes shot fire. I knew if you pressed the skinny pedal to the floor, it made a great, thundering noise in front, a squeely noise in back, and it smelled funny. Plus, it made the rear of the car swing back and forth. It was great fun.

Both the 5.0 and the 'Cuda were on the road all the way until I was 15. They were mainstays, they were how you got around. I could not wait to get one of my own. Imagine my surprise. "Wait, so the front wheels drive?" "A 1.8L? I want a car, not a bottle of soda!" "What's this lever on the wheel and how come I don't have a third pedal?"

I don't think I've ever gotten over that disappointment, and perhaps is the cause of my many rants.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 29th, 2012 at 2:28:41 AM permalink
MonkeyMonkey
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 111
Quote: AZDuffman
I assume by "their version of Smart" you mean the 500?


Yup.

I wouldn't be caught dead in one, but I bet a lot of people are.
World's most discriminating Kool-Aid connoisseur
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