The Science of Driving

As somebody who drove RWD cars for 30 years, until I
got my first FWD in the mid 90's, I'll say I prefer FWD
overall. It's true, if you lose control in FWD car it tends
to 'auger in' to wherever it's pointed, very scary the
first time it happens to you. But my big problem in
winter has always been getting up hills, like in my driveway,
and not getting stuck. FWD is a miracle for getting up
hills, and I rarely get stuck in one. RWD was a nightmare,
always having to dig out because it wouldn't move. The
good ol days was when they let us have studded snow
tires, but they tore up the roads and they got outlawed.

So yeah, FWD sucks when you lose control. So don't do that..

Quote: Evenbob

As somebody who drove RWD cars for 30 years, until I
got my first FWD in the mid 90's, I'll say I prefer FWD
overall. It's true, if you lose control in FWD car it tends
to 'auger in' to wherever it's pointed, very scary the
first time it happens to you. But my big problem in
winter has always been getting up hills, like in my driveway,
and not getting stuck. FWD is a miracle for getting up
hills, and I rarely get stuck in one. RWD was a nightmare,
always having to dig out because it wouldn't move. The
good ol days was when they let us have studded snow
tires, but they tore up the roads and they got outlawed.

The best thing about FWD going uphill is you point the car and it goes that way. In RWD cars you sometimes had to have the car at an angle to make it go straight. Or the tail would keep kicking out. I do not miss RWD at all.

Quote: AZDuffman

The best thing about FWD going uphill is you point the car and it goes that way. In RWD cars you sometimes had to have the car at an angle to make it go straight. Or the tail would keep kicking out. I do not miss RWD at all.

You have all the weight of the engine over the front
wheels, pulling the vehicle. In RWD, you have weight
of an empty trunk pushing the thing. In the winter,
that's not a good scenario. I had pickups for years
and carried a full 55gal drum over the rear axle,
it wouldn't move in the snow without it.

You guys make some good points, and you'll find no argument from me here. It clearly a case of driving style. If time is not an issue, and you're content to go as slow as needed, then FWD is definitely the choice for you.

Personally, "wasting time" is right up there with "stupidity" as the thing I most hate in this world. In a commute, I am constantly running a sort of risk/reward formula in the background of my brain. In the case of winter driving, this risk/reward is constantly figuring time saved by speed vs time wasted by ditching it and it results in me maintaining a speed that's as fast as possible while keeping me rubber side down. That max speed, for me, is much higher in a RWD than a FWD. After all, what keeps you on the road? The front tires' turning traction, of course. And the more of the 100% you have for the fronts' turning traction (ie the less you're using for acceleration), the faster you can go.

A note, though, on weight (since you brought it up). Everyone knows the trick of loading the wheels in winter. For you, it was the 55gal drum. Most people here do the sandbags, filling a mess of burlap sacks at the beach and placing them over the wheel wells. This activity needs to be held in the same light as 4WD. It Is Not A Cure All! By putting more weight over the driving wheels, in this case, the rears, you increase their maximum potential traction. But this is only really good for acceleration purposes. And here's why...

We all know about inertia and centrifugal force, Newton's First Law; it's basic physics. F=ma. The more mass a body has, the more it resists changes in its inertia, the harder it is to change its direction. While adding weight gives those tires the traction it needs to bite the snow, it also makes it harder to make the direction you're going change. Much like 4WD, you can take off and think you're suddenly king of the world and glued to the road, until you turn and find you are a dead man. All the weight resists changes in direction, and coupled with the added speed thanks to your acceleration traction, you're rear end wants to keep going straight. Porsche's had a bad reputation for this in the early days thanks to it's rear-engine configuration until modern gains in suspension allowed them to overcome it. Heavy rears want to waggle; the more weight you plop back there, the worse it becomes.

Quote: Face

A note, though, on weight (since you brought it up). Everyone knows the trick of loading the wheels in winter. For you, it was the 55gal drum. Most people here do the sandbags, filling a mess of burlap sacks at the beach and placing them over the wheel wells. This activity needs to be held in the same light as 4WD. It Is Not A Cure All! By putting more weight over the driving wheels, in this case, the rears, you increase their maximum potential traction. But this is only really good for acceleration purposes.

I still remember that guy I knew had the Demon. As you might imagine, wide, slick tires are not the best in the snow. So he went looking for sand. He pit it at the very rear of the car, not over the axle. I tried to explain that every industry person or outfit (eg: AAA) says put it right over the axle. He insisted the far rear was better because it "gave leverage like a see-saw."

Yeah, all those industry engineers must be wrong and you with a car barely on the road have to be right.

I have got to find this guy! He sounds like a goldmine of hilarity XD

Quote: Face

I have got to find this guy! He sounds like a goldmine of hilarity XD

The stuff he did.

Wanted a 2 X 4bbl system for his car >1,000 cfm. When I tried to explain that was way too much he called me a nerd. I tried to explain that even NASCAR does not allow that much and all you are doing is "forcing the engine to drink from a fire hose." Of course the car never got put together in any case.

Then once went to a swap-meet in Carlisle. We left about 0600. Guy buys tortilla chips, hot salsa, and iced tea, then wonders later how come his stomach hurts. When we stopped at the Seideling Hill Service Plaza he thinks because the other two of us order the breakfast buffet he cannot order off the menu at Big Boy (or whatever it was.) Then when we got back he refused to believe he was at a "flea market" no matter what we told him.

Moral of the story is if your kids are acting weird, get them checked for being a manic depressive.

Carlisle, awesome. They have some crazy meets there. My bachelor party was actually a bike road trip there for their bike show. Good times, and a great ride through those hills. Might have gotten a little carried away on that last hill before town, but man, what a view from the top ;)

I can totally picture the type... he goes to the meet, sees a real tricked out ride, someone who's done it right. Some supercharged small block with all the appropriate mods to make it work. He sees the big ol' bug catcher and wants to blow his out, too. Forget the forged pistons, resleeve, added cooling, cylinder honing, and all the rest of the long, long list of things you need to do to make it work, he just wants to bolt a blower on the damn thing and let 'er rip XD

I can pick those types out at a glance now. Anyone who looks excited? That's your guy. Anyone who knows how to do this stuff knows what a fuck-ton of work it is to do it right, and looks like a man ready for battle. The man with the wide and glassy eyes... there's your disaster XD

Quote: Face

Carlisle, awesome. They have some crazy meets there. My bachelor party was actually a bike road trip there for their bike show. Good times, and a great ride through those hills. Might have gotten a little carried away on that last hill before town, but man, what a view from the top ;)

Went for liek 3-4 years in a row, after that if you do not need to buy for a car it gets boring. Beyond that, of the group that went I planned it all bad was just tired of it. Same guy wanted to go but could not figure out when it was or how to get there. I told him to look in "Hemmings." No luck.

Quote:

I can totally picture the type... he goes to the meet, sees a real tricked out ride, someone who's done it right. Some supercharged small block with all the appropriate mods to make it work. He sees the big ol' bug catcher and wants to blow his out, too. Forget the forged pistons, resleeve, added cooling, cylinder honing, and all the rest of the long, long list of things you need to do to make it work, he just wants to bolt a blower on the damn thing and let 'er rip XD

Same guy wanted the car to be more "solid" so he started welding supports in the engine compartment, including to the tops of the torsion bars! Good thing he never got it on the road.

One more story since you seem to be enjoying yourself. Like all 1970s cars the A-Bodies had rust issues. Anybody who did major body work on them replaced the front fenders with fiberglass ones. They fit perfect, were easier to work with than steel, and no more rust. Guy said he was getting steel. Here is the logic, and this is very nearly a quote. The last sentence *is* one, I am leaving whitespace so you do not cheat and look down, your computer will melt if you look there first.....

"I don't want no cheap fiberglass."
"They use it on all kinds of cars, including Corvettes, it works better.
"I don't want it."
"Why?"
Well, over time fiberglass is not as strong as steel and vibrations will weaken it over time. After a few years it might just get really weak and.....................................................


<white space>













<end white space>

And anything could happen, I mean a good gust of wind can come up and they might fall right apart or something!"


I assure you:

1. I did not make this up
2. I did not exaggerate it
3. I am not drinking as I write it

Chalk this under "rant" if you like, but it happened again and never fails to drive me crazy.

"Right turn on red" has been the law across the USA since the early 1980s, most places well before that.

Now, when you come to a busy intersection, there are many times they do not put a green arrow, but there are left-turn greens the other direction. So when you see the cars to your right making a left turn, a long line of cars, you should know to proceed.

So, why do so many people sit there like a dope and not move? Happened again today. File this under "situational awareness" I think.