What is Judaism?

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December 14th, 2013 at 5:39:53 PM permalink
Wizard
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This is a tangent to the How do you spell Hannukah? thread. That thread refers to the Hanukkah Song, which refers to certain celebrities as being one-half or one-fourth Jewish. That brings me to a question I have tried to get a straight answer to for decades -- Is being Jewish a matter of race, religion, or both?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 14th, 2013 at 7:35:53 PM permalink
DJTeddyBear
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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I say both, but I've had this argument with people in the past, including my wife who objected to my desire to put "Jewish" as the answer to the nationality/ethnic question on our 2000 census - the year she worked as a census taker.

The following Passover, as we were reading the Hagaddah during the first night Seder, we get to a part where it says, "The Israelites went down to Egypt because of the famine in Canaan. While there they grew to be a great nation - separate and distinct from the Egyptians."

They were in Egypt for hundreds of years, yet they were still a nation of Israelites, merely living in Egypt. I turned to my wife and said, "See? Nationality."

Throughout the centuries, wherever the Jews went, they maintained their distance and remained a nation.


For what it's worth, despite my own religious beliefs, or non-beliefs if you prefer (I believe God is an invention of man, not the other way around), I still hold on to a lot of my Jewish heritage and traditions.
Ignorance is bliss and knowledge is power. But having only some facts can get you into trouble!
December 14th, 2013 at 8:29:52 PM permalink
Wizard
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Thanks for the above answer. If somebody Chinese by race converts, is he/she fully Jewish, or Jewish by religion only? In other words, does converting make one Jewish by race as well? Maybe kind of like how bread and wine can turn into meat and blood in Catholicism.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 14th, 2013 at 9:09:32 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Wikipedia article on this question.

As an interesting side question, if Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are so intermingled, why is that Jews do not actively look for converts when the other two are so aggressive ?
December 14th, 2013 at 10:39:45 PM permalink
s2dbaker
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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What is "Race"? Sammy Davis, Jr. was Black and he was Jewish, so was he Black or Jewish? By appearance, he was Black and I didn't come to realize that he was Jewish until he was bantering with Jerry Lewis about it on the MDA telethon. Can you be multiple races or does one of the races necessarily have to be predominant?

Race is a label, it has no tangible meaning. Any one race of human can spawn with any other race of human. Pigeonholing people into categories based on appearance is a thing that we all subconsciously (or not so subconsciously) do but it's not productive. Race lends itself to stereotyping.

If someone gives up their religion but holds onto the traditions of that religion then it's merely carrying on learned traditions. it's learned behavior with customs that the person feels are worthy of continuing. I believe the story of Moses begins with him being adopted by Egyptian royalty. Did Moses' adopted siblings detect in him a different Race? Had Moses not murdered another Egyptian is defense of a Hebrew slave, he probably would have lived out his life as Egyptian royalty and no one would have been the wiser.

Jewish (or in Moses' case, Hebrew) is a religion. Religion is manufactured but it's a personal choice and a choice that can change.

Race is also manufactured but it's something with which we saddle each other. A person is told what race he or she is by others and I think it's meaningless. At the very least, it's a lot less meaningless than a person's choice of religion.

So after all that, Jewish is 90% religion and %10 race and that 10% is insignificant enough to be ignored.
December 15th, 2013 at 7:05:44 AM permalink
DJTeddyBear
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
If somebody Chinese by race converts, is he/she fully Jewish, or Jewish by religion only?
Did you pick a Chinese person because it invokes the line "Funny, you don't look Jewish" ? I say part of the answer depends upon how much he/she really embraces being Jewish.

The same can be said of Sammy Davis Jr. On the other hand, there are many Ethiopian Jews that are black.

Before he died, I used to joke that Michael Jackson was proof that if you have enough money, you can be whatever race you want to be.

I'm just rambling here, but I hope it's food for thought. When I have a chance, I gotta read that Wikipedia article linked above.

---

FYI: Sammy Davis Jr converted with less than idealistic reasons. A friend had given him a mezuzzah (a necklace containing a small scroll of a torah portion). He wore it every day, except the day that he had the accident that cost him an eye. He decided there was a connection, and converted.
Ignorance is bliss and knowledge is power. But having only some facts can get you into trouble!
December 15th, 2013 at 7:11:03 AM permalink
DJTeddyBear
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
As an interesting side question, if Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are so intermingled, why is that Jews do not actively look for converts when the other two are so aggressive ?
Because part of the religious beliefs are that converts do so on their own accord, for their own reasons. And in fact, converts are discouraged unless there appears to be a genuine desire from the person wishing to covert.

According to Jewish tradition, there are 613 commandments that need to be followed to be a good Jew. However, there are only 7 that need to be followed to be a good non-jew. That said, why would and non-jew want to convert? Therefore, there never is any aggressive or even passive effort to find new converts.

Along those lines, Sammy Davis Jr's conversion was more of a publicity stunt that one that was performed under ideal conditions.
Ignorance is bliss and knowledge is power. But having only some facts can get you into trouble!
December 15th, 2013 at 7:41:27 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: s2dbaker
What is "Race"? Sammy Davis, Jr. was Black and he was Jewish, so was he Black or Jewish? By appearance, he was Black and I didn't come to realize that he was Jewish until he was bantering with Jerry Lewis about it on the MDA telethon. Can you be multiple races or does one of the races necessarily have to be predominant?


If Sammy had a one night stand, having no future relationship with the offspring of it, would the kid be half Jewish? As evidence one can be part Jewish I again refer to the The Hanukkah Song. It says that Paul Newman and Goldie Hawn are half Jewish and Harrison Ford is one-fourth.

I hear that any Jew is entitled to citizenship in Israel upon request. Maybe a good place to seek answers is in how they determine if someone is Jewish or not. Why don't the starving people in Africa convert and then ask to immigrate?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 15th, 2013 at 8:12:25 AM permalink
s2dbaker
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
I hear that any Jew is entitled to citizenship in Israel upon request. Maybe a good place to seek answers is in how they determine if someone is Jewish or not. Why don't the starving people in Africa convert and then ask to immigrate?
I was just reading about this last night. I went on a link ride and landed on a page that purports to have the rules. If I recall correctly, if you are African, you have to prove that you are Jewish through seven generations. If you are Russian, you only have to prove through four generations. Americans have issues with proof because birth certificates in the US do not list religion. If one of your ancestors changed his religion then you don't qualify. So that last part pretty much answers the race question.

You can't just say, "Hey guys, I'm Jewish" and then get Israeli citizenship.
December 15th, 2013 at 2:45:07 PM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: DJTeddyBear
I say both, but I've had this argument with people in the past, including my wife who objected to my desire to put "Jewish" as the answer to the nationality/ethnic question on our 2000 census - the year she worked as a census taker.


There was a scene on Northern Exposure where the doctor (who was Jewish) got very offended when somebody characterized his race as white.

Getting back to the song, if someone converts to Judaism, and has a child with a non-Jew, I assume the child would be half Jewish. However, I have a hard time understanding how somebody could have half of a religion. You never hear of a half Christian. When this child grows up, and chooses to follow a different religion, is he still half Jewish? In other words, can he have 1.5 religions?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
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