Fishing With Face

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August 13th, 2018 at 1:44:23 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Ayecarumba

Hmm, sounds about right, but if you look at the picture carefully, you will see Richard Dreyfuss, Roy Scheider, and up top, Robert Shaw. .


Saw Speilberg on an old Jimminy Glick show.
He asks Speilberg, 'So when will you make
the big one, the blockbuster, the one that
people remember'. Cracked me up.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 15th, 2018 at 12:55:51 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Ayecarumba
Sweet! I’m going to put my life jacket on and make some popcorn. Looking forward to it!


Might be too late in the year to get too excited =/

Maiden voyage gets its stamp, though it came with a list. Here's hoping the list isn't too bad (and I'm looking to you, petro, for $0.02 if you got 'em)…

Cosmetically, I couldn't have found a sweeter ride. There's one spot where the adhesive has given up and the vinyl now sags, and that completes the cosmetic issues. Ain't no cracks, no broken levers, no missing trim, no bent window frames...Jesus wept, even every single light and gauge works. ALL of them. Fuel, tach, speedo, oil pressure, water temp, voltmeter, bilge pump, blower, every bit of it works and none of it looks bodged or butchered. I been in the wires plenty (most of last two days ><); it appears the only work done has been the adding of accessories and a tidying up of the loom. It's just one clean rope from dash to engine, tucked just so up in the gunwale. I suppose if one was fussy you could add the loss of the clearcoat and the staining of the hull from being dock kept, but 30yr old boats should look a bit powdery. T'ain't nothing folks like me worry about. As far as looks go, it gets a solid "A+" for its age and I'd give it an easy "B" if rated with the 2018's. There's not even mold or mildew, blood and gut stains, coffee rings, not even sludge left over from missed rotting leaves. All of the white remains completely white. It's almost spooky.

Mechanically, it's not bad, thought that's an ignorant opinion with some asterisks. It's an I/O with a 4.3L Ford V6 and Cobra outdrive, something I thought was kinda big for a fiberglass 19', but whatever. The bay looked like the rest of the boat. I could not find a wire or tag or sticker that was illegible. Ain't burnt, sludged, smoked, rubbed off... looks like someone ran it from '88 to '92 and put it in a barn for 25yrs. It started a little hard when I came to look, but I find all carbed engines do that when they sit and wasn't put off. Good thing, because it's now the fastest starting thing I own. Might spin twice and it's running as smooth and cool as you'd want. Idles nice and buttery, no coughs, hiccups, or shudders. Out on the lake all the gauges came up slow and sat right where they were supposed to be. The two mechanical issues I'll save for the end...

It's quite spartan, which is a plus for me. It is certainly a "pleasure craft" and so has too many seats (9) and not enough livewells (0) for my liking, but that's why we've been gaining experience by building everything we need for the last 5 years, is it not? =) I've already got my well drawn up, I'm just not entirely sure how to plumb it, as I don't ever work with fiberglass. Pretty sure the hull won't be compromised if I start punching holes in it, as it is self supporting as opposed to the braced designs of aluminum boats, I'm just not sure how to get "in it". Every hatch I've lifted or hole I've peered into is not near deep enough, and I'm not sure what or why there seems to be a floor under the floor blocking my access to the bilge. I suppose if it comes to it, I could just do with some clear, soft PVC hoses and just hang 'em over the side as needed. S'pose I do gotta "keep it hick" in some fashion, and that would do it =) It also came with a GPS plotter that I don't know how to yet use, but can confirm it works, and also a Lowrance X-65 fish/depth finder with speed and temp that does not. And I'm finding that as much as clean, tight looms look good, they're a wretched pain in the ever loving ass trying to trace and troubleshoot. No less than 2 and one half hours, and I've got but half of it, maybe 8', loosened from the loom and hanging in the boat. Hopefully I can unleash the rest of it after I'm done here and get to diagnosing why the unit has no power. I just finally got to the fuse, which was good, so I'm just hoping I find it's been yanked out down the line and needs only a rewiring. /fingerscrossed on that one.


Finder aside, I've only two concerns, neither of which I'm at all familiar with. One is some lower unit vibration. Best I can describe it is it's as if something is out of balance, like the prop was chipped (it's not). It's noticeable as soon as it's in gear, putting around a marina speeds. It gets worse as you increase speed up to a rate of "less than plane", but once it starts to plane, it smooths right out. Didn't notice a thing ripping across the lake. Have no idea what it could be so am open to suggestions; for now I'm gonna run it and hope it makes it to winter before I have a mechanical once over done. The second is far more blood pressure inducing, and it has to do with the throttle / trans. The thing goes into gear and adjusts speed as fine as you'd want. But something about that apparatus, the throttle level, is borked inside. If you pull it all the way back to center, it doesn't want to click back into neutral. If you jerk on it, sometimes forcefully yank on it, it'll then return, but it still hangs in gear. I have to then pull it back into the reverse range of the lever, sometimes requiring another yank, before neutral will "engage" and the necessity of the yanking oft makes me dump from drive directly into neutral. I really do not want to do that. Neutral to reverse back to neutral works fine (I think, I only had to do it once as soon as I launched) but I found ZERO luck going from drive back easily into neutral. And using the city docks with 8 ramps and 20 boats staged up was goddamn infuriating and hella terrifying, since I couldn't guarantee the thing would stop forward motion, and it was incredibly difficult to control when every forward motion HAD TO include a quick blast into neutral. I actually couldn't get it done and had to wind drift into the side most dock, it was that bad. If I had to describe it, it feels as if there's something stiff yet bendable, like plastic, that has jammed in the way. When you get to neutral, you can pull it back and feel the increasing resistance, and the lever will get pushed back if you let it go. It's almost like you have to yank past this mythical plastic poke, and then everything's fine. I was hoping it was exactly that, some c-ring let go or whatever, but then I found that lever is connected to some large, heavy contraption on the other side of the gunwale, where I imagine all sorts of expensive and complicated and wholly impossible to reach mechanisms reside, and so haven't touched it. Petro, you know what I'm on about? What is this thing, and how f#$% is my pocketbook? Looks like the boat throttle controller is borked; can they be repaired or should I dump a couple hundo (and half a freaking month =p) and just swap it?

That's mostly it for now. Didn't catch nothing but a sunburn and a buzz as I'm all out of sorts on this year's fishing. Hopefully I'll get this damnable finder up and running and that part will change.

Add on: Petro, reckon painting this thing ain't no different than painting a 'Vette as far as prep, but what kind of paints should be used? Is auto enamel good enough to take the abuse of plants/docks/trailer, or do they have more robust stuff for watercraft? You know, just in case ;)
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
August 15th, 2018 at 1:03:21 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
I'd do a thorough search on that engine online and see if your concerns are known problems. If so, will save some time wondering.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
August 15th, 2018 at 1:16:48 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Face
Might be too late in the year to get too excited =/

Maiden voyage gets its stamp,
Commissioning run.

I want to harass you later on this, but....that second floor you see and are thinking about drilling, is probably the fuel tank...

There is a neutral lock on the throttle lever that locks it into neutral, try wd 40? Then it needs replacing when that doesn't work. lol

How old is that fuel? Got a oil/water separator?

I got to run. Well not run exactly, but go.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
August 15th, 2018 at 2:13:57 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Face
Might be too late in the year to get too excited)


The only question I have is,
how long did it take you to
type that post. Would have
taken me half an hour.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 15th, 2018 at 4:18:39 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: petroglyph
Commissioning run.

I want to harass you later on this, but....that second floor you see and are thinking about drilling, is probably the fuel tank...



In the back, yes. Two access ports, one for the filler hose into tank clamp and another for the pump assembly. But half way up the boat there's a big port, and it's just deep enough to house an oar laid flat.

Nvm. Just thinking about the layout and the soft PVC already gave me my idea. We're all set.

Quote: petro
There is a neutral lock on the throttle lever that locks it into neutral, try wd 40? Then it needs replacing when that doesn't work. lol


If you're talking about the trigger you squeeze with your hand on the throttle, it's definitely not that. It's something in the guts of the thing. I'll just plan on replacing. $200-$300 part, so probably +$700 - $1,200 for labor =p At least it's the sole issue. Fix that and it's like new.

Quote: petro
How old is that fuel? Got a oil/water separator?


Iono.

It does. Those get changed by time or hours used? This one's old but fresh; if I go out every time that I hope to for the rest of the year, I might put 2-3 more hours on it. Soft hours. Motor 15min to a spot, sit for 4 hours, motor home. Figured I could get away with that before the winter service.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
August 15th, 2018 at 5:45:53 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Face
Two access ports, one for the filler hose into tank clamp and another for the pump assembly.
Pump assembly? Fuel pump, or bilge pump? I would have thought the fuel pump would have been mounted on the motor, being cam driven or something?

Quote:
But half way up the boat there's a big port, and it's just deep enough to house an oar laid flat.
I think you mean paddle, unless it is a row boat and you have oar locks. Somebody had to ding you, being the resident pedant and all. lol I always wanted my paddle where I could get to it while motoring, to check depth, push off docks or canyon walls, snag a line in the water, etc. I go through about one a year, just like props.

If you're talking about the trigger you squeeze with your hand on the throttle, it's definitely not that. It's something in the guts of the thing. I'll just plan on replacing. $200-$300 part, so probably +$700 - $1,200 for labor =p At least it's the sole issue. Fix that and it's like new.
The one I'm thinking about is 180* from that lever, underneath IIRC? It's a neutral lockout so you can't start it in gear. If you are going to change the whole thing, no worries, that will be fun.

Quote:
It does. Those get changed by time or hours used? This one's old but fresh;
Age has nothing to do with it if it's been sitting on a shelf, but's it's the gunk in the lines or tank that gel up, do to the chemicals they now make octane out of. I just change mine every spring before the season. But I did have a guy dump fuel with lots of water in it in a tank for me. That took a long time and several filters to get the fuel system running, just fuel again. I'm guessing your filter is the full sized kind, not the little dinky racor kind? If it is the spin on kind of filter, look for [maybe napa] has the replacement filter with a drain pitcock on the bottom so you can let a little fuel out and look for water bubbles. Great diagnostic.


Quote:
if I go out every time that I hope to for the rest of the year, I might put 2-3 more hours on it. Soft hours.
I guess I am anal about safety? Nobody actually heads out in crappy weather, but we all know how fast it can change. Cook inlet, the water can go from FAC to 8 ft, in thirty minutes. The suction tube for the fuel doesn't go to the bottom of the tank, it stays up off the bottom about 3/4, precisely so you aren't sucking the dregs off the bottom into the motor. When the seas go to hell and the juice in the tanks gets to sloshing around, is when all that gel, moss and dirt get picked up by the pick up tube. And that is usually a real lousy time to be wondering why the motor won't start.

Other than once per year, we came up with a guesstimate for oil changes . Imagining a car going about 60mph, averages about 50 mph., running at about 3k rpm., that would make a oil change about every 60 hours or so. I really doubt you will put 300 hours per year on it, will you? I just changed them in the spring, checked the pitcock regularly, and kept a spare filter on the boat.


Quote:
Motor 15min to a spot, sit for 4 hours, motor home. Figured I could get away with that before the winter service.
You always were a brave one, wouldn't want you to piss away a whole 15 dollars this close to winter. : ) ymmv https://www.westmarine.com/buy/racor--replacement-gas-filter-water-separators-for-mercury-mercruiser-engines--P000411462

IDK, maybe you should go with the oar locks. lol. 15 minutes @ 20kph, puts you about 5 miles out, how far can the kid swim? Tell me you have properly sized pfd aboard.

Maybe sometime I will tell about me getting hit by a ship one time, if I haven't already. It really changed my mind about saving nickels in front of a steam roller.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
August 15th, 2018 at 8:46:34 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Face
Cosmetically, ...... T'ain't nothing folks like me worry about.
If you did, that would indicate we get boats for different reasons.

Quote:
Mechanically,..... looks like someone ran it from '88 to '92 and put it in a barn for 25yrs.
That is where I get all my vehicles, I love these guys.

Quote:
It started a little hard when I came to look, but I find all carbed engines do that when they sit and wasn't put off.
Carbs hate me for some reason, but that makes it fair, I hate them right back. I hope you never have occasion to look inside the float bowl. I seem to be a bit of an additive advocate. Put some Sta-bil in the tank imo, at your next opportunity. Gas isn't really all petroleum now, is it. Although inboards do seem to run on water better than outboards.

Quote:
Out on the lake all the gauges came up slow and sat right where they were supposed to be.
Has this been a strictly fresh water boat? Is it fwc or rwc ? Just brought back memory's of all the fun I had with heat exchangers. I'm guessing from what you've posted, this is a rag top, semi V, just judging by your comment on the depth from the deck to the hull, open bow, cabin?




Quote:
it is self supporting as opposed to the braced designs of aluminum boats,
That boat has "stringers" in it, they run front to back. I hope the stringers are glass and not wood like most of them. A lot of times, older boats look really good, but find a stringer access somewhere, preferably where there is a limber hole in it to let the water run between and down to the bilge pump. Try to dig a fingernail or nail or something into it. Sometimes they are totally rotten and make you wonder what holds the boat together.

http://wavetrain.net/boats-a-gear/275-fiberglass-boatbuilding-internal-hull-structures


Quote:
S'pose I do gotta "keep it hick" in some fashion, and that would do it =)
Could you make it look like a beer cooler?

Quote:
also a Lowrance X-65 fish/depth finder with speed and temp that does not.
And it doesn't matter. The impeller on the speedo doesn't adjust for river or tide speed, it just measures how fast water is running past it. The gps knows how fast you are going. Does surface temp really matter?

Quote:
I'm done here and get to diagnosing why the unit has no power. I just finally got to the fuse, which was good,
Have you determined that voltage is getting to the feed side of the fuse? Shouldn't have to tear the loom apart, the wires are color coded are they not? Wiring is always fun with you. : )

Quote:
One is some lower unit vibration. Best I can describe it is it's as if something is out of balance,
Dollars to donuts, it's the u joint in the lower unit. The commercial guys I've known just rebuild the lower unit every year, regardless. It's a wear item, like brakes. Gives you the opportunity to really inspect the boot.


Quote:
It's noticeable as soon as it's in gear, putting around a marina speeds. It gets worse as you increase speed up to a rate of "less than plane", but once it starts to plane, it smooths right out. Didn't notice a thing ripping across the lake.
Like a tire that is out of balance?


Quote:
Add on: Petro, reckon painting this thing ain't no different than painting a 'Vette as far as prep, but what kind of paints should be used? Is auto enamel good enough to take the abuse of plants/docks/trailer, or do they have more robust stuff for watercraft? You know, just in case ;)
You know how I am about automotive paint. I like a roller and a gallon of bed liner. I'm not nearly as picky as picky about boat paint. The boats I paint, you only paint the bottom, with anti fouling paint. : ).

I had a neighbor with a twenty year old Bayliner, he would take it to the factory if he messed up detailing anywhere. He wouldn't even drive up to the beach, anchoring out and making everyone walk in. I drive mine onto the beach and power back off, or drive it onto the trailer sometimes in rough water. My friends boat got the nickname, "rainbow warrior" because it had a little of everybody else's boat paint in the harbor, rubbed off onto his from collisions.

The first guy that buys a boat put's enough wax on them to last a lifetime, I get them to use them, not keep 'em pretty. lol
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
August 16th, 2018 at 1:21:41 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Evenbob
The only question I have is,
how long did it take you to
type that post. Would have
taken me half an hour.


Sorry. It's been awhile.

Quote: petroglyph
Pump assembly? Fuel pump, or bilge pump? I would have thought the fuel pump would have been mounted on the motor, being cam driven or something?


Fuel pump. Looks just like any car I've seen. Much of it all looks very car-like, more racecar-like with all the accessories and emissions stuff gone.

Quote: petro
I think you mean paddle, unless it is a row boat and you have oar locks. Somebody had to ding you, being the resident pedant and all. lol I always wanted my paddle where I could get to it while motoring, to check depth, push off docks or canyon walls, snag a line in the water, etc. I go through about one a year, just like props.


Shocked I blew that one. But yeah, the paddle =p

Quote: petro
The one I'm thinking about is 180* from that lever, underneath IIRC? It's a neutral lockout so you can't start it in gear. If you are going to change the whole thing, no worries, that will be fun.

Age has nothing to do with it if it's been sitting on a shelf, but's it's the gunk in the lines or tank that gel up, do to the chemicals they now make octane out of. I just change mine every spring before the season. But I did have a guy dump fuel with lots of water in it in a tank for me. That took a long time and several filters to get the fuel system running, just fuel again. I'm guessing your filter is the full sized kind, not the little dinky racor kind? If it is the spin on kind of filter, look for [maybe napa] has the replacement filter with a drain pitcock on the bottom so you can let a little fuel out and look for water bubbles. Great diagnostic.


Good to know. I can't say I've had any water issues in recent memory, though I usually do drain any seasonal motor of fuel each fall. But yeah, it's big like a truck's oil filter and sits right in front. Be an easy change, but, you know... =p

Quote: petro
You always were a brave one, wouldn't want you to piss away a whole 15 dollars this close to winter. : ) ymmv https://www.westmarine.com/buy/racor--replacement-gas-filter-water-separators-for-mercury-mercruiser-engines--P000411462

IDK, maybe you should go with the oar locks. lol. 15 minutes @ 20kph, puts you about 5 miles out, how far can the kid swim? Tell me you have properly sized pfd aboard.


Not pissing away $5 here and there is how I bought a sweet boat with cash money ;) And hell, you can't spit in Death's face unless you coax him in close =)
But I get it. Erie ain't as bad as the Gulf, but it gets hairy quick. Message received. And yeah; it's been awhile so can't recite regs verbatim, but I'm pretty sure it's Coast Guard legal. 4 PFD's (the bulky rescue kind), flares, whistle, paddle,... lights and poles, flag,... anchor,...… it's registered (lol)…… think that's it? It even has ship to shore. I think my only legal issues will be either alcohol related, or the bringing of firearms "into Canada". Mayhap that GPS will come in handy for that one.

Or maybe I should just not carry on the boat. You have no idea how many I've lost over the side already ;) XD

Anyway, yeah, I'd hear that story about nickels and steamrollers.

Quote: petroglyph
Has this been a strictly fresh water boat? Is it fwc or rwc ? Just brought back memory's of all the fun I had with heat exchangers. I'm guessing from what you've posted, this is a rag top, semi V, just judging by your comment on the depth from the deck to the hull, open bow, cabin?


Fresh as far as I know. Sea's 420 miles from here. Nothing looks crusted or funky. Anodes on the lower unit fresh as a daisy. Dunno vessels enough to recognize fwc v rwc, but yeah, has a removable vinyl biminy, open bow. Cuddies are a waste of space, IMO. That's two more fishing spots you're losing up front.

Quote: petro
Could you make it look like a beer cooler?


I'll do ya one better; I'll make it be a beer cooler =)

Quote: petro
And it doesn't matter. The impeller on the speedo doesn't adjust for river or tide speed, it just measures how fast water is running past it. The gps knows how fast you are going. Does surface temp really matter?


Silly mariner, we don't worry about tides here. And it very much matters. Speed relative to shore tells me how fast my lure is coming past a fish, but I also need speed relative to water to gauge what depth it'll run at, or if it'll even run at that speed. And surface temp won't ever be accurate, but it gives ideas. I've been out when it's hot enough to kill ya, yet the water was still in the 50's. I never would've guess it would have still been that cold, and would have wound up targeting areas and fish I had no business doing at that range. T'ain't perfect, but it's better than dipping a foot.

Quote: petro
Have you determined that voltage is getting to the feed side of the fuse? Shouldn't have to tear the loom apart, the wires are color coded are they not? Wiring is always fun with you. : )

Dollars to donuts, it's the u joint in the lower unit. The commercial guys I've known just rebuild the lower unit every year, regardless. It's a wear item, like brakes. Gives you the opportunity to really inspect the boot.


Like a tire that is out of balance?


Solved! At least the first part. After hacking it all open and tracing it all the way back, it looks like dude removed it to maybe charge the battery and simply reconnected it to the battery wrong. And THIS is why I love wiring. Nothing is ever "proper". Negs aren't always black, grounds aren't always white. And this is what happened with this, and why "wiring is always so fun with me", you sonuvabish ;) The reason I had to open the loom is because it had to be done. The wire I began with didn't exist on the other end. And I found somewhere along the line where that cord split into two, and BOTH of them were red. It has two batteries with a selector switch, saw it was connected to the positive in there, looked to the battery, and connected positive there as well. Swapped it to the neg and it popped right on. Two and a half f#$%ing days LOL!

Jesus this got long. But yeah, like a tire out of balance. I'll just do it over winter. Now, I sent my wheeler over a cliff and have to get on that asap before I miss the next run. I'll tell ya about my cracked bellows next time XD
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
August 16th, 2018 at 3:34:36 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4942
Quote: Face
Erie ain't as bad as the Gulf, but it gets hairy quick. Message received.


I grew up about one block from Lake Erie. The first time my father trusted me enough to take the boat out without him I was about 15 years old. I picked up a couple of friends and we headed out fishing. We were probably about two miles off the shore of Vermilion Ohio fishing with minnows and spreaders trying to catch our limit of 50 perch per person. We see a storm brewing up but keep fishing because it is still a little ways away. All of the boats around us start leaving until it was only me and one other boat. Storm is getting close and it is time to leave. I turn the key and it snaps off in the ignition.

Fortunately I was able to flag down the other boat and take the tow of shame to the marina through a very heavy storm.

Just my luck, the first time I am allowed to take the boat out I break it.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.