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Original Sin?
| March 19th, 2014 at 12:37:30 PM permalink | |
| aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
So the baptism is acceptance…by a newborn baby who has not the slightest clue or care as to what is happening - how can the newborn actually accept the forgiveness (and please do not say it is done on the baby's behalf as all humans have free will - regardless of age, right?) |
| March 19th, 2014 at 1:37:08 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
It depends what you mean by "obstacles." My idea of paradise is a kitchen as big as a house, where the food preps itself (all the chopping, seeding, coring and so on, but not marinating, blending, whisking, etc), there are speakers all over for audio books, and where the dishes and utensils clean themselves. Then I could concentrate on cooking. Oh, and with a BIG supermarket next door so I could shop for ingredients at any time. Of course this is just a start. I'd also like a quiet place to write. I could have much of that, too, if I wanted it enough. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| March 19th, 2014 at 1:57:38 PM permalink | |
| Face Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 61 Posts: 3941 |
You're killing me, Father. So many thoughts, so little time ponder them =) I'm still unsure about this idea of perfection. I'm unsure of what the desire means. I can think of a few things I have done "to perfection". A game, maybe. Played on the hardest difficulty and completed with no errors. A perfect game of Pac-man, for instance, is possible and a hell of an accomplishment. I was a hair's breadth away from being "the fastest card counter in the world", a title I worked towards for many hours, but fell short. It was certainly something I tried for. But for me, I dunno. It's almost never the destination, it's the journey, if you know what I mean. Doing something perfectly, if that's possible, would mark the end. It would give me a title, maybe, but it's not the title I'd cherish. It would be the journey, the struggle, the failure, the triumph. The learning and the growing. Even here and on WoV; I like making a good post and having it judged as such. But I love making a post which is challenged and/or proven wrong. Therein lies the real value, that is where I learn, and gain more than all the praise put together. I suppose, like every other thing about me, I'm torn. I see the strive towards your perfection and how it might fit your belief. But I also see where it ends short of where your belief says. Something to continue pondering, I'm sure. Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it. |
| March 19th, 2014 at 2:17:30 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18759 | I don't mind contemplating inferring the existence of a creator, but I'd rather start with what we know and deconstruct. Similarly if all you found for the existence of aliens is a UFO, you look at everything you can to figure out what it tells you about the originators of it. Does it have seats? How big are they, what shape? Etc,, Analyze all that data and try to put it together. So, the Universe is what we have to look at. Maybe I can buy some ideas from Christianity about a creator but at some point there's a whole lot of important information that really can't be confirmed, and is someone's word basically. So, I can accept a premise of a god based on what we actually know about the Universe and supposing there had to be a creator. At least that starts a fact based discussion of a possibility. I can live with that idea, even if not believe anything has been confirmed. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| March 20th, 2014 at 7:30:54 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Here is a great quote from C.S. Lewis about Original Sin (from Mere Christianity): What Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they could “be like gods”–could set up on their own as if they had created themselves—be their own masters—invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside God, apart from God. And out of that hopeless attempt has come nearly all that we call human history–money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| March 20th, 2014 at 8:10:08 PM permalink | |
| aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
But it is all words written by men... Also FrG...how do you reconcile the Bible's liberal borrowing/plagiarizing from countless other creation stories throughout its preceding history...? |
| March 20th, 2014 at 8:48:59 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Baptism is a ritual to make the parents feel good and snag the kid at an early age. He's now a Christian, it's a done deal. Then they can start laying the guilt on him as soon as he can understand it. The guilt is what keeps them going back for more and more guilt, the Church thrives on it. The jokes about Catholic guilt are endless and ancient. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| March 20th, 2014 at 9:17:24 PM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | To do better, to be perfect... . I'm not too sure. In a few economic systems there is no incentive to do more and in France it would often be an annoyance to have a transaction that disrupted the existing clock-mechanism. This notion of Original Sin reminds me of those who advocate that I should constantly go around trying to view how the handicapped can participate. If I go into a restaurant, I want to enjoy my meal, not analyze if someone in a wheel chair can do so. I see no reason to burden myself with constant thoughts of the handicapped. So I find this notion of Original Sin a bit like constantly worrying about the Battle of Hastings in 1066. Interesting, profound...but hardly relevant to my daily life. Our Gambling Priest insists there must be a clockmaker because there is a clock. Yet it seems that any such clockmaker devotes his attention only to the clock not the people who view it. And it seems the clock does not deal with the question of original sin anyway. So shall we all debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and if a tree falls in the forest does it make an unheard noise? Seems even more relevant than a supposed conversation with a talking snake several million years ago. |
| March 20th, 2014 at 9:52:28 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | You simply cannot understand the human person without asking why we even have a concept of perfection when so much of what we experience is broken and difficult? Why do we long for something better and pray for a world where no one is handicapped? It is as if the clockmaker has designed it so that we can know when things are not working properly and come to Him to find the missing spring. Christianity believes our world and ourselves were made perfect but something has gone wrong. This concept is the answer why we long for a perfection we have never seen and implicitly believe that in our everyday lives things are not as they should be. A discussion on original sin is the opposite of unimportant - it is essential to figuring out ourselves, the clock we gaze at, and the one who made it. By the way if one more person brings up a talking snake I am going to scream. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| March 21st, 2014 at 12:17:22 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Original sin is a silly intellectual concept, there's no way around it. Designed to induce guilt in people, it's almost evil in its intent. Why, you were BORN a sinner, there's no way out but to repent. The original sales pitch.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |