Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Atheism is the certain denial that there is a God. This is illogical and doesn't make sense and I believe it carries with it a burden of proof.

1) Agigantism is the certain denial that there are giants. This is illogical and doesn't make sense and I believe it carries with it a burden of proof.

2) Since there are, literally, thousands of gods other than yours, please show absolute and certain proof these others do not exist.

Quote: FrGamble

The nothingness that Krauss talks about is not nothingness at all.

Do you know what he had to say about such comments? ;)

Quote: Face

What I see, FrG, is you performing the same games with words and meanings that every religious person has ever used, and that part at least I find maddening. You keep referring to this "logic" and using it as your foundation, but it's so GD broken I cannot fathom how you can't see it, or how no one else has been challenging it

I used to challenge it, but he wouldn't listen, and continues to use illogical and fallacious arguments. I have given up on him. He almost baited me into a reply by stating that logic and reason is evidence, but I decided again not to say anything.

Quote: FrGamble

If you have a hundred eye witnesses I think you can go to court with that case.

Jaywalking, yes. A murder where no
weapon is found, no motive, and the
defendant has an ironclad alibi that he
was 50 miles away at the time, you
have no case no matter what the
witnesses say.

Quote:

Add to it miracles, archeology, sociology, and historical facts and you have a very strong case.

Too bad you have none of that. Miracles are
a joke and easily debunked, historical facts of
the divinity of Jesus are the worst kind of
'game of telephone' hearsay. Archeology? You
could have the actual cross and the actual tomb
the body was in, it proves nothing other than
he was crucified and entombed. Real historical
and the Church's historical 'facts' are very
different things.

Quote: Nareed

2) Since there are, literally, thousands of gods other than yours

No Christian ever wants to discuss this.
If their god exists, all other gods must
exist also. They never see the logic in
that. It hurts their head, they will fix a
look on you like you've lost your mind.

Quote: FrGamble

Atheism is a denial of God's existence. It is not saying that maybe there is a God, it is logical but not certain. It is not saying even that I don't care if there is a God or not. Atheism is the certain denial that there is a God. This is illogical and doesn't make sense and I believe it carries with it a burden of proof. From that one data point that you, I, and the scientific community know as true God, or the force or effect that was the origin of the existence (commonly referred to as God) is a necessity. That is all I am saying over and over again for much more than the 30th time. Why some people can't see this is beyond me.

But that's where you lose me, because it is not at all what you are saying over and over. I mean, yes, I do see you say that over and over, but it also comes with the entire heap of other nonsense along with it.

How'd it begin? I can't know. Perhaps some day long after I'm gone someone will discover something plausible, but I neither hope to see it, nor would I believe it is the answer as it's too complicated to be answered by a simple discovery. THAT is the lone contention in my atheism, what seems to be little more than pedantry. I don't claim there is no root cause, and I cannot wrap my head around the infinite so cannot with integrity state myself "it's always been here". I fully accept the possibility of a god IF AND ONLY IF we use the definition to mean what I posted above. A root cause, an origin.

Why I do not accept the term agnostic is because I do not for a minute believe it was any form of conscious, purposeful action engaged in by an intelligent being of any sort. THAT is where I feel we stray from philosophy and go directly to some form of mental illness. Not necessarily "devoid of reality" mental illness, but the base kind that inhabits every single human that has ever existed. You know, emotion. Ego. Self indulgence. That is the only thing I can see in any of the myriad posts you've made on the topic. It just completely boggles.

For what it's worth, I feel the same way about militant atheists. For every whackadoo Bible banger losing their s#$% over the lord, there is an overbearing atheist playing the exact same game. It's the two sides of the same coin thing I see plenty of in this Left v Right BS in politics, and don't think I consider them "my people". It's all emotion overtaking good sense, and it's despicable in all it's forms.

I can't "prove" atheism. I'm sure you've heard why you can't prove a negative, and I have neither the intellect or the equipment to look back to the beginning of time. But I can test what's been offered, and it all falls flat (although the whole "talking trees" thing a la Moses is possible with enough LSD or brain trauma). But from burying food to nourish the lost on their journey to the Sky World to reciting incantations for healing and health, every single religious proclamation falls flat. The only thing that has ever given me what the god folk claims is there, is other people. Why? What does that tell me?

There are no gods, nor a God. What you refer to as God, it's nothing more than YOU.

Quote: FrGamble

Atheism is the certain denial that there is a God. This is illogical and doesn't make sense and I believe it carries with it a burden of proof.

Here we go for the hundredth time. Negatives
can't be proven. You're the one making the
claim, the burden of evidence is all on you
to show evidence of a god.

Quote:

God, or the force or effect that was the origin of the existence (commonly referred to as God) is a necessity.

You set up the boundaries, claim everyone
in the science community agrees with them,
and then proclaim your truth: God exists.
You're talking about a theory, one of many.
The universe has been here forever, it had
no start and has no end. Our small part of it,
the BB, has happened an infinite number of
times.

Quote: Nareed

1) Agigantism is the certain denial that there are giants. This is illogical and doesn't make sense and I believe it carries with it a burden of proof.

What is illogical about it? I am an agigantist, they are not necessary beings and the evidence of their existence should be seen. God, or as we are really discussing here a force or being that is the cause of all existence, is necessary and the evidence is existence and motion itself.

Quote:

2) Since there are, literally, thousands of gods other than yours, please show absolute and certain proof these others do not exist.

I can't be as certain that these gods don't exist in the same way that I can be certain a God exists. If you want to debunk a religion or demonstrate it is not true you need to appeal to history, philosophy, its effects in the human person, how it helps us understand ourselves and live in society, etc. These arguments can lead to faith in a certain religion and exclude the rest but again it cannot lead to the same strength of conclusion there is that a God exists.

Quote: Nareed

Do you know what he had to say about such comments? ;)

Yes, really the book and his proposal are quite ridiculous and reviewed as such.

Quote: Dalex64

I used to challenge it, but he wouldn't listen, and continues to use illogical and fallacious arguments. I have given up on him. He almost baited me into a reply by stating that logic and reason is evidence, but I decided again not to say anything.

Oh dear Lord,...what is illogical about saying that for there to be anything there had to be a cause?!? Logic IS evidence in that you can know things for certain through it. If a rock hits you on the head then something acted on that rock, you don't have any evidence to reach that conclusion but you have the evident logic. Same thing with A cannot equal not-A. I don't even have to tell you what A is but you know with absolute certainty the truth of such a statement. This is what I mean when I say logic is evidence. Please for the love of God tell me how I have not listened to you and how anything I have said above is illogical. I really need to know.