Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

Jaywalking, yes. A murder where no
weapon is found, no motive, and the
defendant has an ironclad alibi that he
was 50 miles away at the time, you
have no case no matter what the
witnesses say.

Okay, this is a perfect example of moving the goalposts. If you want to go there than please explain to me what the ironclad alibi is and that there is no motive. The facts of the case are the reality of existence and movement in the world. On trial is a non-contingent, all-powerful, force or being that is the first cause and unmoved mover. There is no other possible explanations and we have 90% of the world that could testify to its existence in various ways. Case closed, unless you have a defense?

The word you're looking for is PRIDE. Pride is what makes you able to see only your side of the argument.

Quote: FrGamble

If you want to debunk a religion or demonstrate it is not true you need to appeal to history, philosophy, its effects in the human person,

That's utterly untrue. If you want to
debunk a god centered religion, just
ask for evidence of the god. The
effects on the believers is meaningless,
as is the history. As an example, look
at the impact belief in witches had on
people in the last thousand years.
They believed so much they killed
them by the thousands. All for nothing,
all for a completely false belief.

Why do you keep touting this ridiculous
history/effect on people as if it's some
kind of ironclad evidence? It only shows
how utterly wrong people can be, not
how totally right. It weakens your case.

Quote: FrGamble

Atheism is a denial of God's existence. It is not saying that maybe there is a God, it is logical but not certain. It is not saying even that I don't care if there is a God or not. Atheism is the certain denial that there is a God.

I used to see this discussed on forums -- old days of usenet. See link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism

Quote: FrGamble

Okay, this is a perfect example of moving the goalposts. If you want to go there than please explain to me what the ironclad alibi is and that there is no motive.

In my example? No motive because he
didn't know the guy. Alibi is he's on a
video eating lunch when the crime was
committed.

Quote:

There is no other possible explanations

There are a dozen other explanations, just
none that you'll accept. You've taken your
closed in viewpoint as the center of all
possible explanations, and vetoed the rest.
Just what your Church does on every subject.
They proclaim a truth, then argue from that
truth, whether it's really true or not. It usually
isn't, BTW.

Quote: Evenbob

Here we go for the hundredth time. Negatives
can't be proven. You're the one making the
claim, the burden of evidence is all on you
to show evidence of a god.

Here we go again for the hundredth time. I am not the one choosing to make a truth statement denying the existence of something. It is very hard, but not impossible to have certainty something does not exist. If you don't like your position that there is for sure no God then I would suggest modifying your beliefs and acknowledge that God, in the sense of a higher being or force infinitely greater than we can imagine, is a logical necessity but you nor anyone has any idea what this God truly is. Such a statement would make sense and you can still maintain your prejudice against religion and Catholics. The burden for any truth statement is one the one making the claim. The difference is embrace and try to make my case, poorly I guess, but you just beg off and pretend you have no burden of evidence or logical argument.

Quote:

You're talking about a theory, one of many.
The universe has been here forever, it had
no start and has no end. Our small part of it,
the BB, has happened an infinite number of
times.

What you say here is not only a theory it is a cockeyminey load of baloney. There is not a single scrap of evidence or logic to support it. I know of no scientist or philosopher worth their salt who would agree with you.

Quote: FrGamble

What is illogical about it?

There are several references to giants in many ancient civilizations. We haven't excavated every cubic inch of the planet where their fossilized remains might be found. So how can you deny they existed?

Quote:

I can't be as certain that these gods don't exist in the same way that I can be certain a God exists.

Aren't you afraid of what will happen in the next world if you meet Osiris, Thoth and the rest?

Quote:

If you want to debunk a religion or demonstrate it is not true you need to appeal to history, philosophy, its effects in the human person, how it helps us understand ourselves and live in society, etc.

Irrelevant. If Ra dies each sunset and rides through the underworld to be resurrected to appear the next day, then that's that.

Quote: pew

The word you're looking for is PRIDE. Pride is what makes you able to see only your side of the argument.

Please know that I believe this is true and I am honestly trying to see the other side of the argument. Sometimes I wonder if others are doing the same?

Quote: FrGamble

There is not a single scrap of evidence or logic to support it. I know of no scientist or philosopher worth their salt who would agree with you.

Wow, you're in for a hard time of
it if all your beliefs are waiting for
science to catch up. The difference
between you and me is, I don't care
if you believe my take on things,
what does that have to do with the
truth. Tell a Hindu you don't believe
as they do and they'll shrug and
go on with their business. Tell a
Christian their god is preposterous
and they'll argue with you for 20
minutes. Why is it so important to
them that you believe too. Why
do they try so hard to convince you.

Because they doubt it too, that's why.

Quote: FrGamble

Please know that I believe this is true and I am honestly trying to see the other side of the argument. Sometimes I wonder if others are doing the same?

Do you believe Evenbob is an angel sent by your god to test you?