Original Sin?

The best argument to take against
a Xtion is to get them to explain
sin to you, what Jesus supposedly
died for. Most of the time they can't
do it. FrG has yet to come up with
an explanation of sin that makes sense
in the years this thread has been here.

Original sin is not in the Bible, Jesus
certainly never talked about it. If Jesus
didn't know about the concept, what
sin did he die for. When backed into
a corner once about what sin was, Billy
Graham answered:

"A sin is any thought or action that falls short of God's will. God is perfect, and anything we do that falls short of His perfection is sin."

So with this bizarre explanation, it
shows that even his wonderfulness
Billy didn't have any idea what sin
is. Any thought or action that falls
short of a perfect gods perfection?
Really? That pretty much covers
it all, any thought you have or anytime
you fart sideways, you're sinning.

But they have it covered, Jesus died
for this. You've been saved from made
up malarkey and baloney that doesn't
exist so you can be coerced into joining
a religion that will exploit the heck out
of your gullibility. No thanks.

Bob on a recent thread you came to the realization that not only did you understand the concept of sin, but that it was a fundamental part of human existence. We all know and every person, religion, and culture must deal with the reality of our imperfection and our falling short. Sin is the easiest and most clearly demonstrated reality that every human being, even those who don't believe, recognize.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob on a recent thread you came to the realization .

Sorry, you've got your memory befuddled yet
again. I have yet to see sin explained in a way
anybody can understand. The dictionary says
it's a violation of gods law. You say it's
'imperfection' but you never give any details,
no Xtion ever does.

What sin did Jesus die for. Be specific. Surely
you know, Easter is in 3 weeks. Did he die
for original sin, as most Xtions will tell you?
A concept he never spoke of and didn't
even exist until centuries after he died? Is
that the story you're going with?

I contend you have no idea what sins Jesus
died for, it's just something Xtions say
because it sounds good. Try and nail them
down on it and they either run away, or
get mad. Which will you do.

He died for all our sins. All of your sins, all of mine, all of them.

What kind of details do you want? There are all kinds of sins we commit but the general concept you get. It is that imperfection, that falling short, the disappointments we cause, etc. It really isn't that hard. Maybe you can be more specfic? What about the concept of sin don't you understand?

Quote: FrGamble

What about the concept of sin don't you understand?

Seriously, after all this time, you
still don't know? I don't get ANY
of it! Imperfection? Falling short?
These are meaningless to me,
falling short of WHAT? Xtions
always do this, they love to explain
sin in riddles and act like we all
know what they mean.

Quote:

He died for all our sins. All of your sins, all of mine, all of them.

I don't understand, what 'sins' are you
talking about? Why are Xtions never
specific? It's like a cop giving you a
ticket and when you ask what it's
for, he just waves his hand and mumbles,
it's for every time you violated the
law. What the heck are you talking
about.

I've asked you over and over exactly
what sins Jesus died for and you say
'all of them'. Can you be excruciatingly
specific, pretend I have no idea what
you're talking about. Otherwise I have
to assume you're the one who has no
idea how to answer the question.

Okay I think we were talking about doing something that disappointed someone, like your father. You said you knew about that and understood it. That is the concept of sin. By the way I think you do understand imperfection and falling short.

About specific sins, I don't know you so it is hard to answer. If you examine your conscience I am sure you will have many things you feel guilty or ashamed about and these sins Jesus forgives. He also forgives you of sins you may not even be aware of such as the mean way you treat many on this forum and the prejudiced views you espouse. Jesus loves you and forgives you of them all. All you need to do is repent and believe in His great love for you.

Quote: FrGamble

Okay I think we were talking about doing something that disappointed someone, like your father...That is the concept of sin.

So if you try out for sports and don't
make the team and your did is
disappointed, you've sinned and
Jesus died for this? Seriously?

Quote:

I think you do understand imperfection and falling short.

I understand this the least. Imperfection,
does this mean you have a birthmark
and it's a sin because you aren't perfect?
Falling short, of what. I have no idea what
that means. I have expectations for myself
and don't meet them, so that's a sin against
your god?

Quote: FrGamble

I am sure you will have many things you feel guilty or ashamed about and these sins Jesus forgives.

Give examples people might have, I
have no idea what you mean.

Quote:

He also forgives you of sins you may not even be aware of such as the mean way you treat many on this forum.

So Jesus died because I am rude at
times on an internet forum? You're
pulling my leg now, you can't be
serious. You believe someone has
to die for the rudeness of others?
Do you realize what a shrink would
say about that? You're making it up,
that can't be a real thing..

This is like pulling teeth, getting a
straight answer about what Jesus
died for. Google 'what sins did
Jesus die for' and you you'll get
nothing but the runaround. Vague
unspecific answers that offer no
details and no examples. He died
for 'sins', but there are no explanations
of what that is. I remember asking
these questions 45 years ago in my
Xtion group. They started avoiding
me because they had no idea how
to answer.

Maybe the easiest way to think about imperfection and falling short is to envision the person you want to be. Think about the way you would like to act towards others and towards yourself. Think about the things you want to do in your life and the interests you would like to pursue. Do you notice a gap between the Evenbob you want to be and the Evenbob you are? Don't feel bad about it because that won't help you. Also don't worry, every honest human being who has ever lived recognizes such a gap or a falling short. It is because we are imperfect with a longing to be perfect.

You asked for examples of things that you or others may feel guilty or ashamed about. Maybe we feel guilty about the lack of time we spend with our family or about how we treat our family and friends at times. We feel ashamed about our selfishness and the time we might spend by ourselves at places like casinos. We might feel guilty or ashamed about the time we spend looking at porn or fantasizing about other women and making them into nothing but objects for our pleasure. Past actions that we regret can cause us a lot of guilt. For all of these things and to take away your guilt and shame Jesus died. He died to set you free to become the best version of yourself and to stop letting sins lie to you and tell you that are something other than an amazing and awesome child of God set on this world to do great and wonderful things.


p.s. You kind of poo-pooed the whole being mean on an internet forum thing as not being worthy of Christ's sacrifice. I feel you don't completely understand the pain and hurt you can cause by your rudeness. I can speak personally about the pain you have caused me by your IMHO unfair attacks about me and my beliefs. You also have brought out of me rudeness that I repent for. Words hurt worse than anything my friend.

Quote: FrGamble

It is because we are imperfect with a longing to be perfect.

Any shrink will tell you this is
a dangerous position to put
yourself in. Having unrealistic
goals leads to failure and frustration.
What does you being a perfectionist
and psychologically unbalanced
have to do with Jesus dying.

Quote:

For all of these things and to take away your guilt and shame Jesus died.

You must be joking. Jesus died because
I yelled at my kids and worked too many
hours when they were little? For that
somebody had to die? Think about what
you're saying. Doesn't this seem just a
tad bit drastic? If you suggested to a
shrink that somebody should die because
you feel bad, he would try and have you
locked up. This is why Xtions never come
out and name the offenses Jesus supposedly
died for, they are trivial and silly most of
the time & show what a fraud this religion is.
Jesus died because I yelled at my grandma
once and still feel bad about it? Really? I
mean, REALLY????

Quote:

I feel you don't completely understand the pain and hurt you can cause by your rudeness. I can speak personally about the pain you have caused me .

Have you noticed you can no longer
send me PM's? I blocked you a month
ago because I got sick of your constant
private degrading comments. You relentlessly
attack me and I got so sick of it I blocked
you. Now you have to do it publicly and
you've toned it way down because you
don't want people to see who you
really are.

EB does know what sin is after all. He gave one of the best explanations I've heard. Thank you!

'Any thought or action that falls
short of a perfect gods perfection?
Really? That pretty much covers
it all, any thought you have or anytime
you fart sideways, you're sinning."