Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

The fatal flaw is always they think
they see a 'creation', so they make
the second mistake and go searching
for a creator. Not finding one, they
make one up. The universe, (not
the galaxies, but where the galaxies
exist) has been here forever. We
can't grasp this because we're part
of it.

The god religions are just a primitive
attempt to make sense of something
they have no chance of understanding.
Gods and superstitions and virgins
giving birth, it all belongs in the age
of ignorance it came from.

The universe is a creation which is why trying to dialog is a waste of time. People just talk past each other. Just believe what you want, move on and be done with it.

Quote: aceofspades

My christian friend attempted this argument

He is a devout christian and sent me this meme:



I responded by asking if, that if the universe cannot come into existence from "nothing" then, how did "God" come into existence - he quoted Revelations to me about "God" was, is and always will be

He failed to see the irony of his argument but I did not persist

I'm always intrigued why atheists ask the question about where God comes from because it is the very reason that God exists. It is the impossibility of an infinite regress that causes me to say God exists and Evenbob to say the material universe is eternal. It is the argument of a first cause or unmoved mover. Something that doesn't need to exist has to have a reason for its existence. This is where Evenbob fails and God is proven to be true. God is a name for the reason and source of all existence. A non-contingent spiritual being that is the foundation, sustainer, and source of all material existence. It is a logically necessity.

Quote: pew

The universe is a creation

Which you can't prove and makes
zero sense.

Quote: Evenbob

Which you can't prove and makes
zero sense.

Thank you for helping me make my point. Now go pick a nice red tomato from your garden.

Quote: Evenbob

Which you can't prove and makes
zero sense.

What makes zero sense is you saying the universe is not a creation. Listen to pew and think about if a tomato is a creation or not. Does it have to exist? No, but it does. That means something created it. The universe and you did not have to exist and therefore you and the universe were created. This is the same with every physical thing that exists.

Quote: pew

Thank you for helping me make my point.

I missed your point, please repeat
it. You look around and think you see
a creation, how is that a 'point'.

Quote: FrGamble

Quote: aceofspades

My christian friend attempted this argument

He is a devout christian and sent me this meme:



I responded by asking if, that if the universe cannot come into existence from "nothing" then, how did "God" come into existence - he quoted Revelations to me about "God" was, is and always will be

He failed to see the irony of his argument but I did not persist

I'm always intrigued why atheists ask the question about where God comes from because it is the very reason that God exists. It is the impossibility of an infinite regress that causes me to say God exists and Evenbob to say the material universe is eternal. It is the argument of a first cause or unmoved mover. Something that doesn't need to exist has to have a reason for its existence. This is where Evenbob fails and God is proven to be true. God is a name for the reason and source of all existence. A non-contingent spiritual being that is the foundation, sustainer, and source of all material existence. It is a logically necessity.

Who created "God"?

Quote: aceofspades

Who created "God"?

Man created god, of course. We
create gods as we need them,
and destroy them when they
are no longer useful. Yehvey
is about done, time for a new
one based on tech..

Quote: Evenbob

Man created god, of course. We
create gods as we need them,
and destroy them when they
are no longer useful. Yehvey
is about done, time for a new
one based on tech..

EB - that, of course, is the answer but I wanted to find out what FrG's response would be
I predict he will use the circular reasoning that "God" was, is and always will be

Quote: Evenbob

I missed your point, please repeat
it. You look around and think you see
a creation, how is that a 'point'.

My point is you, I or anyone else is ever going to change your or my belief about the creation of the universe. Therefore there is nothing to dialog about because we can't get past the most basic of questions and end up talking past each other. It's time to stop beating a dead horse and move on to tomato picking or some other worthwhile activity. We had an authentic New England clambake last Saturday on Patience Island in beautiful Narragansett Bay. A bunch of us oldtimers cranking out the fish, lobsters, corn, potatoes a little venison steak and sausage cooked up on the rock seaweed lined pit. Now that's worthwhile. (Didn't talk religion or politics either)