Original Sin?

August 14th, 2019 at 12:12:48 PM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: FrGamble
I think if you think about my examples you will see the error in your thinking. Can you have an infinite stack of legos without something upon which they rest? Can you have motion without something causing that motion. This is the first cause or the unmoved mover and they are logical requirements for there to be anything. A more philosophical way of thinking about this would be to consider contingency. You do not have the reason for your being in yourself. You are contingent on many other things for your existence. Everything material that exists has this condition of contingency, including the universe itself. It does not have the reason for its existence in itself. It is not necessary. Therefore something non-contingent; that does have its reason for existing in itself and is not dependent on anything else is required.


Our errors are the same then
August 14th, 2019 at 12:18:23 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Please explain...
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
August 14th, 2019 at 12:24:55 PM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: FrGamble
Please explain...


You are building "God" on the same infinite stack of Legos
August 14th, 2019 at 12:37:44 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: aceofspades
You are building "God" on the same infinite stack of Legos


Nope, He is the table on which all the legos stand. God is not another lego but is something very different but necessary for the stack of legos to stand.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
August 14th, 2019 at 1:10:16 PM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: FrGamble
Nope, He is the table on which all the legos stand. God is not another lego but is something very different but necessary for the stack of legos to stand.


Prove it.
August 14th, 2019 at 2:02:16 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
Quote: aceofspades
Prove it.


No god believer can prove their
gods existence, it's unfair to
ask them to do so. They get
very upset and run around
squawking nonsense to themselves.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 14th, 2019 at 2:24:29 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: aceofspades
Prove it.


Are you seriously asking me to prove that a stack of legos need some surface to stand upon?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
August 15th, 2019 at 3:28:05 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
I'm really enjoying the seminary book.
It's called Holy Trinity and was in AL.
They're gone now, I believe.

The author says they had a few weeks
at home in summer, but were not
allowed to go home at Xmas or Easter.
They opened and read all the students
mail, and their outgoing mail, and discarded
what they deemed improper. And never
told the students.

I asked my former priest friend who
was in the system at that time and
he said they always threatened to read
their mail, but he believes they never did.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 16th, 2019 at 3:12:54 AM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 1985
Quote: pew
The universe is a creation which is why trying to dialog is a waste of time. People just talk past each other. Just believe what you want, move on and be done with it.


Agreed.

The universe did not always exist. If it always existed, then time would be infinite. Time cannot be infinite. If time is infinite, then at any point in time, an infinite number of events will have occurred.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. That is the First Law of Thermodynamics.

Everything that exists in the universe is a form of energy.

Energy can only be transferred or transformed. All energy, which includes mass, is in the process of being irreversibly converted into heat energy. That is the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

If the universe always existed, then all forms of energy in the universe would have been irreversibly converted into heat energy by now, and nothing else would exist.

Only something not subject to the laws of the physical universe could have created the physical universe.
August 16th, 2019 at 4:35:20 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
A. Our understanding of the laws of the universe are incomplete, and in some areas may be incorrect
B. That is not license to provide an explanation that violates the laws of the physical universe and claim it as a fact
C. There is nothing that links something not subject to the laws of the physical universe to any "god" past or present that humans may or may not have believed in
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan