Original Sin?
August 17th, 2019 at 2:17:13 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Because it's obvious. You have to redefine what the universe actually is. It's not 'everything' as wiki says it is. It's the place where everything exists. A fish in the ocean thinks the ocean is the universe. Not quite.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
August 17th, 2019 at 5:23:05 AM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
I don't understand your question. My position is we don't know what happened at or before the big bang, and that there is no reason to believe any god or gods conceived of by humans were there, or were the cause. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
August 17th, 2019 at 10:25:03 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Yes we do. Wandering nomads in 4000 BC, ignorant people who ate with their right hand only because they wiped their ass with their left, they made it up and convinced other ignorant dopes it was true. The tradition of convincing the ignorant has continued to this day. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
August 17th, 2019 at 3:39:49 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
There is reason to believe and know that the creator or God or first cause (whatever term you would like) is not a material being and is supernatural, that the creator is eternal (at least at the creation of the world), and this creator is all powerful to create all that exists. That is what I think we can know for certain through reason alone. Still just thinking like our brilliant ancestors whose shoulders we stand on we can make good arguements that this creator is intelligent, creates laws, allows freedom, appreciates beauty, and that we are unique and special in the universe. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
August 18th, 2019 at 3:24:21 AM permalink | |
Tanko Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 0 Posts: 1965 |
You’re grasping at straws. I don’t care about that ridiculous example of what a fish thinks the universe is, or what desert nomads thought 4,000 years ago. Try Newton, Kepler, Clausius, Thompson and Boyle. In a previous post you said, the universe has ‘obviously been here forever’. I asked how you know the universe ‘has obviously been here forever’, and you answered: “Because it’s obvious”. So, the universe has obviously been here forever, ‘because it’s obvious’. On top of that, since you can’t answer the question, according to you, we 'have to redefine what the universe actually is’. |
August 18th, 2019 at 5:20:13 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Just as a fish can not comprehend all that much beyond the ocean, the universe may indeed be beyond the scope of our comprehension. It is similar to the probabilities expressed in DNA matching where the testimony is often "a number larger than anyone in this room can understand". The fish does his best where he is and does not try to find the beginning of the ocean, I see little use in trying to find the beginning of the universe. What would ever be an acceptable proof? |
August 18th, 2019 at 10:05:37 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Obviously.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
August 18th, 2019 at 3:00:09 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 | The ironic thing about Xtionity is, they're all waiting for the 'return' of something that never happened in the first place. Kinda funny, actually. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
August 18th, 2019 at 6:37:34 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Somehow I don't think comparing our thinking ability to fish is the right thing to do. Unlike fish we can know the universe we are in and know that what we are talking about is all that exists. Also human beings do our best when we do think about the beginning of all existence. It is amazing that we out of all creation can even think about such things. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
August 18th, 2019 at 7:42:45 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Which universe? The Upanishads in India says this universe of galaxies has sprung into existence more times than there are grains of sand on the beach. The fact that we exist in it is about as mysterious as it feels. That is to say, not at all. Do you wander around all day marveling at your existence? Neither does anybody else. It feels like we've been here forever and always will be. No mystery, very boring. That's why life is what you make it while you're here this time. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |