What is heaven supposed to be like?

Descriptions of hell are a dime a dozen. People talk about hell a lot, but heaven is curiously vague. In Judaism there is noe concept of hell, but I'm unsusre whether there is a heaven or any kind of afterlife; the subject hardly ever comes up. I recall a 2nd grade Hebrew teacher who claimed heaven was the Garden of Eden.

So what does your religion or belief say about heaven?

Me, I have to go with Asimov's notions. He talks of a dream in which eh finds himself in heaven, and rather surprised at sucha turn of developments. After being reasured that he was in heaven, I forget by whom, and the he was indeed welcome there, Dr. Asimov, still in the dream, then asked "Is there a typewritter I can use?"

The meaning is that for him heaven, or paradise, would mean being able to carry on with what he loved doing. In his case writting.

Having thought, ro fantasized if you'd rather, about the idea for some time, I conceive of an idealized, modern city, completely peaceful and clean, with fluid traffic and lots and lots of things to do. People don't age, don't get sick, are all sane and rational, etc, etc (of course for this to work the owners or keepers or trustants of paradise woul wind up exclusing lots of people).

Quote: Nareed

Descriptions of hell are a dime a dozen. People talk about hell a lot, but heaven is curiously vague..

Hell has always been the best motivator to
scare people into following Jesus. Heaven
is bland and boring. Hell is constantly
reinvented for every generation, fire and
brimstone, pointy tails and pits of howling
souls.

Quote: Evenbob

Hell has always been the best motivator to
scare people into following Jesus. Heaven
is bland and boring. Hell is constantly
reinvented for every generation, fire and
brimstone, pointy tails and pits of howling
souls.

Yeah, I'm with Bob here. Hell is life here on Earth right now. Heaven is whatever you want it to be in order to make life on Earth tolerable. If you're a celebrity with money, then this is heaven on earth and Hell is scary. If you're struggling day to day, then Heaven seems better and something to strive for.

Life on earth was extremely hard for most of
the history of mankind. Disease, famine, climate,
war, you name it. You were born, you were miserable,
you died. There had to be more to it than this.

So religions invented heaven. This was all a test
so you could get the big reward. And if you strayed
from the religion, the punishment was worse than
than what you were going thru here. Silly stuff,
but hey, ignorance was the rule of the day.

Except in the Eastern religions, they pretty much
had it right from the gitgo. Sure you suffered,
sure life was crap, but life goes on, just hang in
there and it will all work out.

Evenbob once again you're not making any sense. How could anyone invent something that they could have no way of understanding? If life is extremely hard throughout our history even till today, where would the conception of perfection ever enter our minds? We have no experience of it, no understanding of it, it would be like coming up with a new color no one had ever seen, impossible. You can't invent something that is totally foreign to you.

Of course I would argue that perfection is not foreign to us because it is imprinted deep within us by our creator and we long to return to a perfect state again for which we were made. Unfortunately, sin has caused ourselves and our world to be broken and full of sufferings and imperfections and we need help to recover our rightful state. However, since you continue to deny sin and our need for a savior I'm curious as to how you explain why we don't just accept this suffering and crap life as all there is and not even worry about it.

I agree with the Eastern religions, just hang in there and it will all work out, something better is to come, we know it in our bones that this imperfect and fleeting world is not all there is. The question is why do we instinctively feel that way, when nothing around us is ever perfect or lasting?

I'm sorry I got distracted by Evenbob's post and should have read the OP, which is more about what our vision of Heaven might be?

There are three attributes of our immortal souls that are infinite. Love, Reason, and Will. I think Heaven is a place where we are in a constant state of falling deeper in Love with God and all around us especially each other. At the same time we are constantly learning more and more about the universe in a never ending euphoria of understanding. Finally, our will and our bodies are perfectly ordered with a new glorified body free from all possible sickness and amazing in its power and beauty to do only what is right and the will of God as we are enveloped in a constant community of self giving and support. Oh boy it is the opposite of boring and the ultimate fulfillment of all we are as human beings. By the way all this growth in love, wisdom, and goodness takes place through our continuous worship and adoration of God.

Nareed brought this up a long time ago, but I do tend to lean towards Dante's vision of hell. It is a place separated from God, therefore there is no light, no heat, no love, no anything. A block of ice is a better description of this than flames and pointy tails. Hell might be best described as the nothingness so many atheists seem to think awaits us all, and what could be more boring than nothingness?

Quote: FrGamble

How could anyone invent something that they could have no way of understanding?

Have you never read science fiction? It goes on all the time.

Oh, I forgot. I hope you're feeling better.

Quote: FrGamble

There are three attributes of our immortal souls that are infinite. Love, Reason, and Will. I think Heaven is a place where we are in a constant state of falling deeper in Love with God and all around us especially each other. At the same time we are constantly learning more and more about the universe in a never ending euphoria of understanding. Finally, our will and our bodies are perfectly ordered with a new glorified body free from all possible sickness and amazing in its power and beauty to do only what is right and the will of God as we are enveloped in a constant community of self giving and support. Oh boy it is the opposite of boring and the ultimate fulfillment of all we are as human beings. By the way all this growth in love, wisdom, and goodness takes place through our continuous worship and adoration of God.

I appreciate the reply.

However (you knew thatw as coming, didn't you?), this description is so vague I felt like falling back to one of my snide comments (but won't).

I've never read Dante, except for translated snippets in school. I have read a modern take on Dante's Inferno by science fiction authros Niven and Pournelle (Imaginatively called "Inferno.") Of course they portray a horrible place, but one thing is clear: people, demons, devils, imps, and even six-legged lizzards have things to do. Terrible things, but things. In addition we learn some people make use of their eternity of time in other ways. A priest who wonders around with a cloak made of solid gold (which gets hot if he stops moving), has spent the time catching up with affairs on Earth and learning new languages.

What is one supposed to do in Heaven?

Atfer all, you have all the time there is and will ever be, if we accept the premise of an eternal after-life. In this world it takes, say, 25-30 years for someone to become a specialized scientist (counting from birth). Think of all the knowledge and experience that implies, along the everyday activities fo life. Now imagine that same person with eternity available. What one could learn and build in that time is mind-boggling.

Quote:

Hell might be best described as the nothingness so many atheists seem to think awaits us all, and what could be more boring than nothingness?

I've never understood the "nothingness" bit. What I believe is that upon death we simply cease to be. Everythign remains as is, except we're not there anymore. I fon't think I'll experience nothing, but that there won't be a me to experience anything. This is not easy to comprehend and it must be impossible to imagine. the closest I've seen it explained is "it will be just like things were for you before you were born."

Quote: FrGamble

If life is extremely hard throughout our history even till today, where would the conception of perfection ever enter our minds?

Who thinks heaven is perfection? I never heard
that before. Heaven to most people is a nice place
you go where all your friends and relatives are,
and you have no worries about anything.

In the old OLD days it was a place you went as a
reward for putting up with all the crap here on earth.
And hell was the place you went for not obeying
gods commandments. It's for children, for the uneducated
ignorant masses. Even the dumbest person can understand
reward and punishment.

Quote: FrGamble

There are three attributes of our immortal souls that are infinite. Love, Reason, and Will. .

Only 3? Not 6, or 17? Heaven is what you make it
because it's a concept, it doesn't exist. It's an
intellectual concept dreamed up by religious people
to keep the flock in line, give them something to
look forward to.

"A samurai comes to a Zen master and says,"Tell me the nature of heaven and hell."

The Zen master looks him in the face and says,"Why should I tell a scruffy, disgusting, miserable person like you? A worm like you, do you think I should tell you anything?"

Consumed by rage, the samurai draws his sword and
raises it to cut off the master's head. The Zen master says, "That's hell."

Instantly, the samurai understands that he has just created his own hell- black and hot, filled with hatred, self-protection, anger, and resentment. He sees that he was so deep in hell that he was ready to kill someone. Tears fill his eyes as he puts his palms together to bow in gratitude for this insight.

The Zen master says, "That's heaven."

Meaning that heaven and hell aren't actual places,
you create them and live in them as you go along.
They're concepts only and thinking they're real
can be dangerous.