Are we doomed to slower advancement until advancements stop?

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April 17th, 2014 at 12:39:07 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: AZDuffman
Her rally against DDT caused a ban. This cause an increase in malaria in the Third World. .


The problem with DDT is it was over used. In
banning it they caused millions of deaths from
malaria. They realize now that it's safe when
used in moderation and is quite effective. Tell
that to your average citizen and they'll think
you're insane.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 17th, 2014 at 12:47:06 PM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Malaria is truly a scourge, a hateful disease (I contracted it overseas) which is among the top if not the top killer in the world I believe. The hope is a vaccine -- tough because the agent is a parasite not a bacterium as you know -- or some other biological approach. Stay tuned.

DDT, due to extreme toxicity and long half-life is definitely a bad substance with many other far-reaching effects so lots of trade offs here where in effect the cure is worse than the disease, not to mix metaphors.
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
April 17th, 2014 at 1:04:52 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: chickenman


DDT, due to extreme toxicity and long half-life is definitely a bad substance with many other far-reaching effects so lots of trade offs here where in effect the cure is worse than the disease, not to mix metaphors.


The thing is people just say "ban it" without knowing what happens after.

When I was a PCO one of my bosses said we need to make nice with the anti-pesticide people. We needed to educate them he said. I was the opposite, said we will never win and we need to fight for what we have before we lose it. I still remember a meeting at I forget what college (it is where the Bills have camp) and a local woman who ran an anti-pesticide group demanded a meeting. I was polite but didn't give an inch. In NY you cannot say a pesticide is "safe." I worded something some way she didn't like and she called me on it. So later she said something about being "Unsafe" so I replied, "We cannot say that because if something cannot be said to be 'safe' by definition it cannot be said to be 'unsafe.'"

Then I told how a product was taken off the market because they could not justify the cost to re-register as the EPA decided all pesticides needed to be. She said "GOOD!" I said, "No, not good. It had no odor, could not become airborne, and worked well in small amounts. Now it is gone, and it is gone for no reason than they decided to add cost the manufacturer could not justify."

I can't remember her answer because I think she had none. I later was published as an op-ed in the Rochester paper, my boss was not exactly happy.
The President is a fink.
April 17th, 2014 at 2:00:29 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
"While DDT is highly toxic to insects and fish and can poison other animals in large enough doses, in moderate amounts it's not especially harmful to birds and mammals, including humans. (Ironically, the EPA's own judge agreed, but was overruled by its chief administrator.) No one has conclusively proved that DDT can give you cancer.

On the other hand, DDT is demonstrably effective at controlling the mosquitoes and other insects that transmit malaria and typhus. Thanks principally to DDT, in the years after World War II malaria was eradicated in the U.S. and sharply curtailed in many tropical countries. Venezuela recorded eight million cases of malaria in 1943; by 1958 that number was down to eight hundred. The World Health Organization estimates that DDT saved 50 to 100 million lives during this period, and that's just counting malaria prevention. In recent years, however, the disease has staged a comeback. Globally it quadrupled during the 1990s, and it's even reappeared sporadically in the United States."
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 17th, 2014 at 2:41:23 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: AZDuffman
I still remember a meeting at I forget what college (it is where the Bills have camp).


Back in that day, that would've been Fredonia State, where I went to college and where I still play hockey.

Funny =)
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
April 17th, 2014 at 2:51:36 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Face
Back in that day, that would've been Fredonia State, where I went to college and where I still play hockey.

Funny =)


No the one they moved to in Rochester.
The President is a fink.
April 18th, 2014 at 3:49:31 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5053
Quote: AZDuffman
"I have a way to heat your house, very inexpensive and a nice, warm heat. Only problem is it is kind of flammable and will kill a few people a week in the USA due to fire or explosion. Would you be willing to use it?"


Is it really accurate to say it kills a few people every week? Probably not just the US then.

Watched a program that gave a figure for over two decades, in the US and Canada, of how many linemen die maintaining electricity lines. Was it 10-20, or dozens, or hundreds, or thousands?

it was in the hundreds over two decades. Deaths of coal miners may be similar, not sure
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
April 18th, 2014 at 4:39:14 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
I'm surprised at that given the (presumed) training and awareness of the inherent dangers. Would have thought more would die from falls, traffic accidents etc.
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
April 18th, 2014 at 4:52:42 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: odiousgambit
Is it really accurate to say it kills a few people every week? Probably not just the US then.
[/spoiler]


I think I saw something about 150 or so a year. Figures are hard to get because some mix propane in with natural gas. Either way my thought was imagine if you told people today that you will heat houses by pumping in a highly explosive gas had they never used or heard of natural gas before.

As we all know, I want people to use as much natural gas as possible.
The President is a fink.
April 18th, 2014 at 8:40:12 AM permalink
theodores
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 2
Posts: 85
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: odiousgambit
Is it really accurate to say it kills a few people every week? Probably not just the US then.
[/spoiler]


I think I saw something about 150 or so a year. Figures are hard to get because some mix propane in with natural gas. Either way my thought was imagine if you told people today that you will heat houses by pumping in a highly explosive gas had they never used or heard of natural gas before.

As we all know, I want people to use as much natural gas as possible.
Me too!
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