In The News Today...

Quote: rxwine

First off, a total ban expecting knives to nearly disapear has to have some hopes of working even a little bit. Otherwise, only total morons could believe it makes any sense at all. ]

A ban on swords in the 9th century makes
as much sense as a ban on guns now. People
kill people, not weapons. Why is this so
damn hard to understand. The weapon
is merely the means to an end. It's not
relevant. What you need to ban is human
aggression. Good luck with that..

Been a long time since I went into one of those commercial "haunted house" places they set up for Halloween.

I guess this guy figured he'd take advantage of the situation of the fake monsters grabbing at patrons and do some grabbing of his own.

Wisconsin man gropes 3 at haunted house

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Police-Wisconsin-man-gropes-3-at-haunted-house-5836765.php

Quote: terapined

Honest question.
What's the solution to preventing these types of tragedies.
Armed guards at the schools?
Armed teachers?
No school, everybody home schooled?

Here is the first answer--you cannot prevent every tragedy. You cannot totally remove danger. Schools cannot nor should they be on permanent lock-down.

Here is the next answer--USA society is is such a decline that it is incapable of doing the most important thing, and that is simply watching for what does not belong. When I went to school if someone was on the grounds that did not belong they were noticed very fast. If kids acted unusual they were watched. Today the USA is so afraid of "profiling" anyone for any reason anywhere there is simply an attitude that there must be "NO TOLERANCE" and we ban kids from making guns with their fingers. Yet we wonder why there is still a problem. Quite simply, most of administration of most of the schools are just too street stupid to run anything, which is why they flee the private sector.

Here is the answer you are afraid to hear---SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ARE NOT A PROBLEM! There are 98,xxx schools in the USA. Lets just call it 100,000. Since 1980 call it 300 people killed in school shootings. 300 since 1980 is just under 10 per year, call it 10. 10 per year is one person per month in 100,000 schools. Yes, I know we probably had a bit fewer schools in 1980 but roll with it.

I am sorry, but one person per month in 100,000 schools and 50,000,000 students is too low justify making a school a locked-down prison. The money diverted can be better used for other things. The effect on the kids is not worth it.

Just because a tragedy happens does not mean we need to "do something." It does not mean we need a new law named after a victim ("Amy's Law") to "make sure if it can't happen the same way again." It does not mean we turn the nation into a series of locked down places. It does not mean we keep giving up more rights for "security." And it should not turn us into a place where 40% of the population lives scared of daily life and wants every little threat removed.

But sadly, it is just easier to blame the NRA.

Quote:

These type of tragedies will continue. Can they be prevented?
I believe Norway was an aberration. Once in a lifetime tragedy for that country. In this country its school shooting after school shooting. Its never ending here, over and over.

It might just be an observation bias, but it seems to me that most of these shootings are in fairly liberal areas and not among the "gun nuts of the red states." Thus even less reason to think availability of guns is the issue and it is other things.

To answer the question, though, they can be kept to a lower level by common sense running a school at a local level, which in the USA in 2014 is next to impossible with the DOE wanting to run the schools from DC. They will never be "prevented." If there is a school then some nut job will eventually try to kill the kids inside. Risk cannot be removed from life totally.

Quote: AZDuffman

It might just be an observation bias, but it seems to me that most of these shootings are in fairly liberal areas and not among the "gun nuts of the red states." Thus even less reason to think availability of guns is the issue and it is other things.
.

This was an interesting statement. I might respond to the rest but the above intrigued me.
Wikipedia lists 40 school shootings in 2014
I was actually shocked at this high number and we still got over 2 months to go.
I was actually shocked at how many school shootings this country has had over its history.
Its actually gotten a lot worse, take a year such as 2007, 4 incidents, 2014 40 incidents with 2 months to go.

Anyway I looked at the 40 incidents in 2014 listed in Wikipedia.
24 incidents in blue states (states Obama won 2012)
16 incidents in red states (states Obama lost 2012)
So in a way ZD is right but hopefully he is just as shocked by the overall number.
If Obama lost swing state Florida, the incidents would be even, 20 red, 20 blue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Quote: terapined

Honest question.
What's the solution to preventing these types of tragedies.

When I was coming up, kids that caused trouble were booted out of school. Too much coddling going on now, if it was like the old days it would cut the number of shootings way down IMO.

I suppose you have incidents where kids do shootings that never before caused a bit of trouble. But I bet that is few and far between.

Quote: odiousgambit

When I was coming up, kids that caused trouble were booted out of school. Too much coddling going on now, if it was like the old days it would cut the number of shootings way down IMO.

I suppose you have incidents where kids do shootings that never before caused a bit of trouble. But I bet that is few and far between.

Bad timing, looks like yesterdays incident was by a kid that never caused trouble. He was a freshman homecoming King. Sat in the front row of all classes. was on the football team.

There are many factors that go into why school shootings happen but let's toss around a few things that might start someone in the wrong direction (not a perfect list, to be sure):

--never being told that someone wins and someone loses until you are in high school. Think about it. In Texas, they added an additional team to the playoffs this season so more could be involved...now a 1-9 team could make the playoffs. No folks, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This crap about giving everybody a trophy hides the truth of the real world and our youngsters don't learn how to handle it early enough.

--Parents taking care of everything. Our overindulged little brats seem to get more and more things handed to them on a silver platter. New cars or trucks, the nicest of clothes, etc. without ever having to do an iota of work to understand what it takes to get those things. Sure, there have always been those that had a silver spoon BUT there are more of them today than ever (of course, a lot of those items are bought on credit).

--Violent video games. Sure, we played cops and robbers outside when we were kids, but no one died. Someone may have gotten a scraped knee or something along the way, but the idea was not to ever really hurt anyone...except by being better than them in the game. Killing games suck and are bad for our kids--and everyone else. Anything that desensitizes you to the kill is bad. If you have to have the child kill something, go on a hunt and let them see the death and the harvest of the animal.

--Closed doors and meals in the room. I've been guilty of these, and I worked to end it. Parents have to know what is going on with their kids. Ordering takeout and letting the kid go to the room to do who knows what is easier but it isn't parenting.

--Glorifying violence. We hear cold-blooded beheadings by ISIS called "executions" as if ISIS were some entity that actually was carrying out a realistic and acceptable form of law. We hear gang murders called "execution-style"...really, what state allows you to shoot people in the head as a form of execution? Hint--China is not a state. It doesn't necessarily make someone want to commit violence, but it does help desensitize people to murder because we don't call it what it is...

You can toss in more--parents and school staff not knowing their students and what is going on (too large of schools), lack of hard physical work with no time to think of stupid things to do, etc. Add our problems handling crazy people...I'm sorry, people with issues...

We could take all of the guns away from all of the legal owners out there and there still would be plenty of guns to go around. Perhaps some are too easy to get to (not locked up properly) but I can tell you that most houses I went in had guns and ammo in unlocked cabinets, folks went to school with a squirrel gun in the gun rack, and NO ONE got shot in school. It isn't the guns; it is how we have changed as a society. We parent kids without being parents. We don't see warning signs or we ignore them. We don't ask the hard questions.

...and oh, yeah, every once in a while even the perfectly raised child is just freaking nuts...

Quote: RonC

There are many factors that go into why school shootings happen but let's toss around a few things that might start someone in the wrong direction (not a perfect list, to be sure):

--never being told that someone wins and someone loses until you are in high school. Think about it. In Texas, they added an additional team to the playoffs this season so more could be involved...now a 1-9 team could make the playoffs. No folks, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This crap about giving everybody a trophy hides the truth of the real world and our youngsters don't learn how to handle it early enough

I don't buy that. Kids play all kinds of games all the time. All kinds of games are played, video, board, outside running around ect. Games are part of growing up for everybody. Its always been that way generation after generation. Kids today are just aware of winning and losing as I was growing up.

Quote: RonC

--Violent video games. Sure, we played cops and robbers outside when we were kids, but no one died. Someone may have gotten a scraped knee or something along the way, but the idea was not to ever really hurt anyone...except by being better than them in the game. Killing games suck and are bad for our kids--and everyone else. Anything that desensitizes you to the kill is bad. If you have to have the child kill something, go on a hunt and let them see the death and the harvest of the animal.

No video games for me growing but our fantasies playing around were just as violent. As a youngster in the late 1960's, me and my friends would hit the local 5 and dime for cap guns and blank guns. Then we would run all over the neighborhood playing war armed with guns to play shoot and kill. Looking back, it was just fun, but also very violent. In a way more violent then video because I had an actual fake gun, pointed at a person, pulling the trigger with a loud bang. The guns with blanks were our favorites. small little red plastic caps with a little powder you loaded like a real revolver and got 6 loud bangs.

Quote: RonC

--Closed doors and meals in the room. I've been guilty of these, and I worked to end it. Parents have to know what is going on with their kids. Ordering takeout and letting the kid go to the room to do who knows what is easier but it isn't parenting

Growing up in northern Baltimore late 1960's, my parents and my friends parents had no idea what we were getting into. As 8 year olds, we would get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles. We had total freedom. Absolutely no supervision all day.

Quote: RonC

--Glorifying violence. We hear cold-blooded beheadings by ISIS called "executions" as if ISIS were some entity that actually was carrying out a realistic and acceptable form of law. We hear gang murders called "execution-style"...really, what state allows you to shoot people in the head as a form of execution? Hint--China is not a state. It doesn't necessarily make someone want to commit violence, but it does help desensitize people to murder because we don't call it what it is...

Late 60's TV was about glorifying violence. Our favorite TV show growing up was Combat. We would watch the show then go outside and play war with our blank guns and cap guns shooting to fake kill. Sometimes for fun, the kid shot would play act falling to the ground fake killed. It was all fun with the fake violence, but the playing did glorify violence.

Quote: terapined

Nothing has changed.

Nothing has changed.

Nothing has changed.

Nothing has changed.

(Quote changed; these are not the words actually written by terapined)

Gotcha. Everything is wonderful. Guns are at fault. There is no other reason possible for what is going on.

**Facepalm**

You are very good at trying to attack every point made by those who disagree with you here, so why don't you do us a favor and tell us what you think is the cause of these things. It may be easy to simply say "guns" but you'd be ignoring just how many households have had guns over the years.

SOMETHING has changed and it isn't just "guns"...but go ahead, say that it is, since I didn't make one single point that you agreed with...

Quote: RonC

Gotcha. Everything is wonderful. Guns are at fault.

Everything is not wonderful.
The point I am trying to make is that violent childhood fantasy games are not exclusive to this generation due to my own personal experiences growing up in Baltimore.