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Quote: rxwine

Go kick a puppy.

Never. I love dogs.

Quote: rxwine

Just glad I don't associate with anyone who compares employees to hamburger.

Your idealized world is different from the real world. Do you realize that it's people that supply the hamburger?

Quote: pew

Your idealized world is different from the real world. Do you realize that it's people that supply the hamburger?

Hamburger maker sets his own price. Suppose he's been supplying the same hamburger all the months before when they aren't doing as well. So explain how that is connected to increased profits? Same with electricity.

Now you could argue employees do no better on the month the business does well, but I kind of doubt it. And I seriously doubt they do worse on that month.

When the owner evaluates his own increase in business, does he doubt that he deserves a bigger share. Maybe, but he takes it anyway. But the same owner doesn't think his employees did anything special. Maybe. Is that idealized. Sorry to hear that.

Quote: rxwine

Yeah, so which economists suggest workers are just cogs in the machine.

Many of them. You should look up the Freakanomics ep about homo Economicus.

But not all of them.

In any case, you can see an employer concerned about working conditions and that their employees do well. You don't see the same with regards to hamburger or raw iron ore.

Quote: Nareed

Many of them. You should look up the Freakanomics ep about homo Economicus.

But not all of them.

In any case, you can see an employer concerned about working conditions and that their employees do well. You don't see the same with regards to hamburger or raw iron ore.

I've nearly given up arguing employment with the rightwing. I can at least understand arguments against welfare, but they often seem to argue against average wage earners. Against living wage, minimum wage, apparently profit sharing is a no go. Seem to be against regulations which might make people safer in favor of doing business.

Here I'm trying to argue, that maybe if business makes more, they should pay employees more. Is that really radical?

I used to think they were just against deadbeats.

Quote: rxwine

I've nearly given up arguing employment with the rightwing. I can at least understand arguments against welfare, but they often seem to argue against average wage earners. Against living wage, minimum wage, apparently profit sharing is a no go. Seem to be against regulations which might make people safer in favor of doing business.

Here I'm trying to argue, that maybe if business makes more, they should pay employees more. Is that really radical?

I used to think they were just against deadbeats.

If you want to know why margins are constantly squeezed and thus the pressure is always on the company to lower costs, with labour usually being the biggest single contributor ask yourself this question RX. Do you purchase the cheapest product that meets your needs. If so you and virtually everyone else get the world that they help create.

Quote: rxwine

I've nearly given up arguing employment with the rightwing. I can at least understand arguments against welfare, but they often seem to argue against average wage earners. Against living wage, minimum wage, apparently profit sharing is a no go. Seem to be against regulations which might make people safer in favor of doing business.

Here I'm trying to argue, that maybe if business makes more, they should pay employees more. Is that really radical?

Yes, that is really radical. I can see why you are tired arguing, because you are making emotional, socialist, and communist arguments. Lets take a look.

Living wage. Please tell me where it is written that every job is supposed to support a family of 4. Heck, tell me where it is written that every job is supposed to pay a "living wage." Because a "living wage" is based on needs and not output. Many jobs do not warrant a living wage. People still take them. Why? They may be using it as a supplemental income. They may be a student who needs to work their way in school. They may be a teenager who needs a first job. It may be a choice between something and nothing.

Profit sharing. Lets see here. You want the workers to get a share when times are good, after the owner took all the risk when times were bad. Reward only, no risk. See what is wrong there?

Minimum wage. It just prices people at the bottom out. Remember when there were one or more guys at the car wash who would wipe the car down? Back when every lane at the grocery store had someone bagging the groceries? Left and right, all kinds of jobs young folks could get? How many are gone?


Reminds me of when FNC had a reporter ask people at a Democrat rally of some sort if they would be in favor of banning "corporate profits." Many were.

Quote: rxwine

Hamburger maker sets his own price. Suppose he's been supplying the same hamburger all the months before when they aren't doing as well. So explain how that is connected to increased profits? Same with electricity.

Now you could argue employees do no better on the month the business does well, but I kind of doubt it. And I seriously doubt they do worse on that month.

When the owner evaluates his own increase in business, does he doubt that he deserves a bigger share. Maybe, but he takes it anyway. But the same owner doesn't think his employees did anything special. Maybe. Is that idealized. Sorry to hear that.

McDonalds shops price, hamburg maker"S" compete to sell at lowest price. Everyone gets squeezed. There's nothing wrong with sharing in success or getting paid well. Many employers do take good care of their people. It's up to the individual to look out for themselves.

Quote: AZDuffman

Yes, that is really radical. I can see why you are tired arguing, because you are making emotional, socialist, and communist arguments. Lets take a look.

And you're arguing like Scrooge. Nothing to be proud of.

Quote:

Lets see here. You want the workers to get a share when times are good, after the owner took all the risk when times were bad. Reward only, no risk. See what is wrong there?

How do you get reward only? I don't expect anyone to get paid more when the business is down. Furthermore, they may even be laid off and the business stays open and owner continues on.. That's not zero risk to the employed unless their jobs are guaranteed which is impossible.

Aside from the fact the owner is taking a larger portion than anyone else anyway. You can't pretend he doesn't also have a greater reward.

Quote: terapined

I work a call center related job but from my home office
I get 5 min to log into the system and get the software set up.
Its fair, takes 5 min, company gives you 5 min

I can actually be fired for working on personal time.
Its a huge no no in a company where everybody works from home
I actually had to sign something stating that I understand that if I work on personal time, I can lose my job
If I work late due to a call, have to log it in and then I get to come in the next day late so it equals out

Sort of in the same vein, my hospital employees are not allowed to punch in more than 6 minutes before their shift starts. So at 6:54am there is a big line at the swipe in machine. Apparently anyone working before the randomly selected 6 minute grace period is considered to be forced into working unpaid, which the union has conniptions over. The same thing on the sign out swipe. Must swipe out by 3:06 or it triggers an overtime event, and they must fill out a form to justify it. I am lucky that i am exempt from the time constraints, because as a 'professional', I don't get overtime, so I only have to swipe in once a shift to prove my presence there.