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February 20th, 2018 at 1:39:43 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: ams288
Not nearly as stupid as "electing" Donald in the first place makes us look.


Absolutely
Its common knowledge around the world that Putin has a President in his pocket
Conservatives may not believe it but the entire planet certainly does

What really makes us look bad
Children are valued over guns in every country on the planet
except the USA
Here, guns are valued and children are not
The whole planet is saying WTF regarding all the school massacres in this country
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
February 20th, 2018 at 1:43:41 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: terapined
I don't know what Mueller has
I take a wait and see approach regarding ALL investigations
I cannot give an opinion on the Mueller investigation till all the cards are on the table
Nobody knows what Mueller has. Hardly any leaks and that's how a proper investigation is conducted

Its shocking a lawyer lied to the FBI
Its a very serious charge, especially if you are a lawyer
His whole lawyer career is in the toilet.
He will never practice law again in this country
If he broke the law lying to the FBI and it's proven, than punish him to the full extent. That, just isn't much, after 30 million dollars, 16 months, and some Russian trolls. The Pentagon will pay people if they hack into their computers; https://mashable.com/2016/03/02/hack-the-pentagon/#BXzaiZwZXiq3

Quarter million per year, attempts at getting into the Pentagon system.

I'm for paper ballots, double counted by volunteers. I also think if anybody wants to vote in the next election of any kind, they should get registered between now and then and get some ID, instead of the constant national conflict at election time.

Did you read FB's first take on the influence or Zuckerburgs?
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
February 20th, 2018 at 1:55:44 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: petroglyph
If he broke the law lying to the FBI and it's proven, than punish him to the full extent. That, just isn't much, after 30 million dollars, 16 months, and some Russian trolls. The Pentagon will pay people if they hack into their computers; https://mashable.com/2016/03/02/hack-the-pentagon/#BXzaiZwZXiq3

Quarter million per year, attempts at getting into the Pentagon system.

I'm for paper ballots, double counted by volunteers. I also think if anybody wants to vote in the next election of any kind, they should get registered between now and then and get some ID, instead of the constant national conflict at election time.

Did you read FB's first take on the influence or Zuckerburgs?

Let the investigation run its course
Thats my opinion on All investigations
Were you ok with Benghazi but not ok with Mueller
I have no problem with either investigation
I support all investigations regardless if a Dem or Republican is being investigated
I dont trust power regardless of what party is in power
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
February 20th, 2018 at 3:13:17 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: terapined
Let the investigation run its course
Thats my opinion on All investigations
Were you ok with Benghazi but not ok with Mueller
I don't trust either investigation. I was totally against us being in Libya at all. Gadaffi surrendered willingly all of his wmd's, years prior. We had no moral right to be there what so ever.

I don't care about Mueller's investigation, and I am suspect of his integrity. If he has something other than bimbo gate or obfuscating lawyers, bring it. At some point, the last election needs to be over and the country needs to attend to more important things.

Get after the Russian connection pretty soon, Mr. Mueller, or quit wasting our time.

Quote:
I have no problem with either investigation
I support all investigations regardless if a Dem or Republican is being investigated
No one should be above the law. I don't think we have rule of law anymore.

Quote:
I dont trust power regardless of what party is in power
On that we can remain agreed. Power attracts the corruptible.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
February 20th, 2018 at 3:51:32 PM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 732
Quote: kenarman
Guns kill or injure about 50K people a year in the US. 125 to 150 million Americans own guns. That is 1 injury/death for every 3000 gun owners.

Cars ill or injure about 2.4 million a year in the US. There are 222 million licensed drivers in the US. That is 1 injury/death for every 92.5 drivers.

Obviously cars 30 times as dangerous as guns. Why don't we ban cars?

I am being facetious but I think that stat says something about how polarized this issue is and as terrible as the shooting up of a school full of kids is it still a small number in the scale of things. I am too lazy to try and research it right now but I bet that more kids die from preventable childhood diseases than guns whose parents refused to get them vaccinated.


Well your numbers are all wrong, for starters. First, recent statistics:

30% of American adults own guns
Census data, 325,719,718, 22.8% under 18 = 251,455,622 adults

75.4 million gun owners (251,455,622 * .30)

Gun deaths in 2017 = 15,449 here
Suicide deaths, 2013 = 21,346 here
Total gun deaths = 36,795

Rate = 75,400,000 / 36,795 = 1 death for every 2,051 gun owner.

222 million licensed drivers is correct. Deaths in 2016 are estimated to be 40,200 = 1 death for every 5,522 drivers.

The death rate from a gun owner is 2.69x times higher than licensed drivers.

The death to injury ratio is obviously much higher in guns than it is for cars for reasons that are obviously. But why isn't the death to injury rate much higher in cars? Let's see:

- Seat Belts and enforcement laws
- Airbags, front and sides
- Child seats (law) with enforcement
- Impact crush zones
- Collision detection zones and lane change warnings
- Backup cameras
- Headlight laws
- ABS Braking systems
- New collision avoidance systems
- Mandatory in-car breathalyzers for people convicted of DUI (some states)
- Suspensions for bad drivers (points)
- High insurance rates for bad drivers
- Driver's licensing tests that take into account your initial skills to pass a test
- Distracted driving laws, enforced.
- Laws regulating the number of hours a truck driver can drive per day
- Speed limits, enforced.
- Various other traffic laws, enforced.
- Traffic lights, speed-restrictors, stop signs, etc.

Let's see what are the gun controls necessary to own and use a gun?
- some states have a background check.
- waiting period with loopholes
- an optional safety

I rest my case. Lawmakers have acknowledged that vehicles are primarily for the greater good and have gone out of their way to enact regulations to minimize traffic fatalities.

You cannot say anything close to the same for guns.
February 20th, 2018 at 4:19:22 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: boymimbo

You cannot say anything close to the same for guns.


So too could you not say anything close to cars when it comes to the proposed restrictions.

Older cars are not required to be retro fitted. No airbags, no seat belts, no cat converters, crumple zones, or peel away belt anchors. Nor do we have hp/torque restrictions, or, for all intents and purposes, speed restrictions. You, after passing a basic and remedial test of knowledge and aptitude, are free to utilize very nearly any size or power vehicle you so choose. And, for the very few whose size and power is deemed "too large" for the remedial test, acquiring the enhanced test, the CDL, is relatively quick and financially easy to afford. Most of the proposals of the Left, if made analogous to cars, would be like allowing only 3-4cyl econoboxes, all sports / muscle / drift / exotic cars and bikes illegal, and a five figure with several year long wait just to drive a bus.

Is there wonder there's resistance?

That aside, I don't really disagree with you. Problem is it's all or nothing. There's no co-op from either side, just smashing pieces to see what's left, and what's left becomes law (or lack thereof). I agree it's a GD shame.

You know how rabid I am on this subject. If you asked me my thoughts about "restricting" certain arms, with the provision that acquiring it would entail an aptitude test of similar cost and accessibility to one found at the DMV, I guarantee you'd have my attention. I just had to re-register every. single. GD. pistol I own, and I'm beyond tired of the games and tricks and persecution. You wanna have a possible wait, plus check? But then I get to own what I want as opposed to what some @#$% says I can? You get, I get, I'm down with that. I can dig compromise based on reasonable desires.

But no. There is none, and shows no sign of there ever being some.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
February 20th, 2018 at 4:23:58 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: boymimbo

Gun deaths in 2017 = 15,449 here
Suicide deaths, 2013 = 21,346 here
Total gun deaths = 36,795

Rate = 75,400,000 / 36,795 = 1 death for every 2,051 gun owner.


You need to take out the suicide deaths for this to make sense.
The President is a fink.
February 20th, 2018 at 4:47:53 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: Face
Problem is it's all or nothing.

I totally disagree
That's NRA propaganda
I am willing to negotiate and compromise.
I am nowhere near no guns at all
What could have prevented the latest shooting?
We live in a country where weapons with the potential of widespread killing in seconds are available for purchase by kids
An 18 year old cant buy alcohol but can buy an AR-15. A discussion about this would be a start
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
February 20th, 2018 at 5:33:38 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: terapined
I totally disagree
That's NRA propaganda
I am willing to negotiate and compromise.


I'm not talking about you. Nor rxwine or boymimbo, for that matter. I'm talking pols. Up there, it's all or nothing. Show me where I'm wrong.

Quote: terapined
What could have prevented the latest shooting?
We live in a country where weapons with the potential of widespread killing in seconds are available for purchase by kids
An 18 year old cant buy alcohol but can buy an AR-15. A discussion about this would be a start


I'm glad you especially asked. I can just be normal and teach, as opposed to ranting like a maniac.

What could have prevented it, and I mean to emphasize that so that we understand that even the best efforts cannot prevent all, but what could have and then didn't is why guys like AZD and me seem to be so unreasonable with our adamant "Shall not be infringed" rhetoric. This guy was a known entity. There were signs, signs which were reported under the See Something, Say Something effort. There were records from the school documenting anti-social behavior, including increasing punishment up to what I believe was expulsion, if not at least a pre-emptive move out of that district, and if I'm not mistaken, even notification to the FBI about his erratic behavior and possession and seeming obsession with weapons. It's just no one told the FBI in Miami. And because of that, what already should have resulted in some sort of intervention was not, and now we have another one.

NO EFFORT is being given anywhere but restriction. Just waiting for one side to finally say "This is f#$%ing ridiculous" and hopefully calling out and culling the extremists on both sides.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
February 20th, 2018 at 5:48:55 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: petroglyph
Thirteen Russian trolls who will never stand trial. What did they do that we don't do round the world round the clock?
.


Are you asking if Americans who get caught by other governments interfering in their elections should be left alone? In some cases those other governments might even execute our people.

That's the price sometimes. Not sure why we should just ignore when others do it.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?