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June 8th, 2019 at 5:53:39 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Dalex64
Yep, rare earth metals are mined. And there is no such thing as clean coal. And we will run out of coal before we run out of sunlight.


We will run out of rare earths before we run out of sunlight. We will all be extinct before we run out of sunlight.
The President is a fink.
June 8th, 2019 at 6:14:15 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Mining RE's in the US has been curtailed because it is so dirty. So other country's without regulations or enforcement are the producers, instead of mining here where it can be done as cleanly as possible and provide Americans with living wage jobs.

"Blood mining" for batteries and flat panels doesn't make California or the US green.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
June 8th, 2019 at 8:44:08 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Photovoltaic isn't the only kind of solar power. Generating steam with mirrors doesn't require rare earths.

And as the coal and oil supporters are so happy to point out that we aren't out of coal and oil yet, we aren't out of rare earth minerals yet either.

Anyway, what are you arguing about? Mining is dirty. Labor standards are up to people to enforce, as are environmental regulations related to mining. If that is below acceptable levels, then it can be fixed. That will probably cost money, but remember the reason for using renewable energy isn't the money.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
June 8th, 2019 at 10:14:29 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Pretty sure safety standards are going down with the current administration, not up. Probably not even on their agenda.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
June 9th, 2019 at 3:25:13 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Dalex64
Photovoltaic isn't the only kind of solar power. Generating steam with mirrors doesn't require rare earths.


No, but it does require a huge amount of land and very sunny conditions.

Quote:
Anyway, what are you arguing about? Mining is dirty. Labor standards are up to people to enforce, as are environmental regulations related to mining. If that is below acceptable levels, then it can be fixed. That will probably cost money, but remember the reason for using renewable energy isn't the money.


But somehow the money always gets involved. Lots of checks to subsidize lots of things. You think that money does not find its way back to the pols who vote for it?
The President is a fink.
June 9th, 2019 at 5:23:27 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Quote: AZDuffman
. You think that money does not find its way back to the pols who vote for it?
I would think the lobbyists have to spring for some money well before the pols vote on the subsidy measures.
June 9th, 2019 at 5:24:32 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
But you are substituting your own, different argument, that involves money.

The one I am talking about is from the consumer side, along the lines of:
"But x is less expensive" and "it will never pay for itself"
People know it costs more, and are choosing it despite that.

They are doing home solar installations that will not pay for itself.

They are electing to pay a higher rate to the power company to allocate part of their bill to support renewable energy.

They are supporting wind farms that, yes, require fossil fuels to build, but then produce power without burning fossil fuels.

Their decision is not about the money.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
June 9th, 2019 at 5:29:47 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: rxwine
Pretty sure safety standards are going down with the current administration, not up. Probably not even on their agenda.


For us, sure. But I was talking about other countries.

Until then, those materials will cost less and incentivise making even more renewable energy capacity.

I was surprised California's power renewable energy consumption level was so high, even if they aren't producing it in house.

That's a wild idea, using excess solar power during the day to pump water uphill in order to have more hydro capacity at night.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
June 9th, 2019 at 6:08:37 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Fleastiff
I would think the lobbyists have to spring for some money well before the pols vote on the subsidy measures.


Yes, it is called an "investment." Green company hires a lobbyist to spread some green, pol votes to require "clean" energy. Pol gets their green, company gets their green, consumer loses.
The President is a fink.
June 9th, 2019 at 8:47:13 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: Dalex64
But you are substituting your own, different argument, that involves money.

The one I am talking about is from the consumer side, along the lines of:
"But x is less expensive" and "it will never pay for itself"
People know it costs more, and are choosing it despite that.

They are doing home solar installations that will not pay for itself.

They are electing to pay a higher rate to the power company to allocate part of their bill to support renewable energy.

They are supporting wind farms that, yes, require fossil fuels to build, but then produce power without burning fossil fuels.

Their decision is not about the money.


If you really think wind farms produce more energy than they consume than I can't help you. Once you are ready to leave your 'green addiction' behind I can help you get there. There is help out there once you are ready.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin