Gay Marriage

December 8th, 2017 at 6:38:27 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: DRich
If a Muslim came into your shop and wanted a cake celebrating 9/11 with the planes crashed into the twin towers, body parts scattered around the cake, and pro ISIS messages on it, would you be okay making that for them? I really don't know that would be different than making a cake with other messages or representations that you don't personally agree with.

No people, I am not equating gay marriage to terrorists.


Maybe you're not, but your argument surely is.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
December 8th, 2017 at 6:40:31 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
The other argument is that this case is different than selling commodities, renting a room, serving a meal in a restaurant, etc. The creation of wedding cakes is a kind of artistry, and you can' compel an artist to make art.


Baked goods are not art. They can be esthetic and decorative, but they're not art.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
December 8th, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM permalink
Ibeatyouraces
Member since: May 11, 2017
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Posts: 83
Quote: Wizard
What is the forum's take on the gay wedding cake case before the Supreme Court? Here is an article about it from the NYT: Justices Sharply Divided in Gay Rights Case.

As much as I tend to favor gay rights, in general, I see this more as a civil rights case. While I would personally have no problem making the cake, I don't think someone should be forced to make a cake with a message they disagree with. I think the baker should have been forced to go as far as he would with another client. Perhaps to a point of putting a bride and groom on the top, selling an extra groom figure, and letting the couple replace the bride with the extra groom themselves. I do not know if he made any effort at such a compromise. Someone with a public-facing business should not be allowed to discriminate who they will do business with but can exercise their own choice as to what they sell.

Just my two cents. I welcome other arguments as I'm not 100% on this position.

This is no different then casinos kicking people out. They have no right to force that guy to make their cake. So if the couple wins, this might open up the flood gates for the SC to hear cases on other types of "discrimination."
December 8th, 2017 at 8:05:48 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Nareed
Baked goods are not art. They can be esthetic and decorative, but they're not art.


I have a different opinion.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 8th, 2017 at 8:06:24 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Ibeatyouraces
This is no different then casinos kicking people out. They have no right to force that guy to make their cake. So if the couple wins, this might open up the flood gates for the SC to hear cases on other types of "discrimination."


I agree 100%.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 8th, 2017 at 9:47:00 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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Quote: Wizard
I agree 100%.


you'd have no problem, then, with a casino throwing someone out because they're gay?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
December 8th, 2017 at 9:47:54 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
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Quote: Ibeatyouraces
This is no different then casinos kicking people out. They have no right to force that guy to make their cake. So if the couple wins, this might open up the flood gates for the SC to hear cases on other types of "discrimination."


If you end up with a rugrat because the only pharmacist in 50 miles doesn't believe in birth control, and your girlfriend decides not to let you know she wasn't able to purchase any, are you going to be pleased?

There are other situations that are more, er dire, about denial of services..
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
December 8th, 2017 at 10:03:19 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Nareed
you'd have no problem, then, with a casino throwing someone out because they're gay?


I would have a problem with it.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 8th, 2017 at 10:27:51 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
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Quote: Wizard
I would have a problem with it.


No lawyer arguing this case is advocating denial of basic services to anyone based on race or sexual orientation. The custom design of a wedding cake is considered artistic expression.

It is like saying a priest is obligated to perform a wedding to a divorced Catholic. Just because the state recognizes the person as divorced and free to re-marry doesn't mean that a priest is discriminating if he chooses not to perform the wedding.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:27:07 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
No lawyer arguing this case is advocating denial of basic services to anyone based on race or sexual orientation. The custom design of a wedding cake is considered artistic expression.


"Artistic expression" can be interpreted even more broadly than "religious belief."

Quote:
It is like saying a priest is obligated to perform a wedding to a divorced Catholic. Just because the state recognizes the person as divorced and free to re-marry doesn't mean that a priest is discriminating if he chooses not to perform the wedding.


a baker is not being forced to perform a wedding, or even to take part in one. just to provide a product he provides to everyone else who has the money to pay for it.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER