The three Persian Gulf airlines

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May 14th, 2014 at 12:37:47 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin

In 1791 the Académie des sciences (Paris) formally decided that the distance from the equator to the north pole should be defined as 10,000 km. Had they defined it as 10,800 km and adjusted everything else based on this definition, the ancient system and the modern system of global distances would differ by a simple factor of 2.


Yes, but then the entire metric system would have no longer be divisible by 10. When you compare how many people need to use weights and measures vs how many need to survey property and navigate it is easy to see why the meter won.
The President is a fink.
May 14th, 2014 at 1:52:15 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
Yes, but then the entire metric system would have no longer be divisible by 10. When you compare how many people need to use weights and measures vs how many need to survey property and navigate it is easy to see why the meter won.


Every metric would still be divisible by 10. Only the base meter would be a different size.

One litre would still be equivalent to the volume of a cube with edges of 10 cm and
One kilogram would still be one litre of water at the melting point of ice.
One kilometer would still be 1000 meters
One centimeter would still be 1/100 meter
etc. etc.

I'm not suggesting that they change the base 10 for all the relationships, just that the earth would now be 43,200 km in diameter instead of 40,000 km (by definition).
Then when you are talking about latitude you could easily convert to km.
May 14th, 2014 at 3:13:17 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Pacomartin
Every metric would still be divisible by 10. Only the base meter would be a different size.

One litre would still be equivalent to the volume of a cube with edges of 10 cm and
One kilogram would still be one litre of water at the melting point of ice.
One kilometer would still be 1000 meters
One centimeter would still be 1/100 meter
etc. etc.

I'm not suggesting that they change the base 10 for all the relationships, just that the earth would now be 43,200 km in diameter instead of 40,000 km (by definition).
Then when you are talking about latitude you could easily convert to km.


But the problem is you would not be able to easily make a "new" meter if and when you needed to. Making it evenly divisible was so you had a whole number of meters from pole to equator. That is to make it easy for precise measurement. Making it so fractional would invite errors.
The President is a fink.
May 14th, 2014 at 4:24:07 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
But the problem is you would not be able to easily make a "new" meter if and when you needed to. Making it evenly divisible was so you had a whole number of meters from pole to equator. That is to make it easy for precise measurement. Making it so fractional would invite errors.


But the 10,000 km from pole to equator was always a notional one. The earth is not a perfect sphere, and there is no way to measure the earth to any degree of accuracy in 1790's. They used bars as an approximation. Later in the 19th century they made the bars out of platinum and irdium with a special cross cut to minimize torsion.

The first interferometric measurements were done in 1906), using the red line of cadmium. Michelson's work in "measuring" the prototype metre to within 1⁄10 of a wavelength (< 0.1 µm) was one of the reasons for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1907.

Finally in the 1980's they dropped the physical bars completely so that the official length is defined using an interfermotric measurement.


The idea of base 60 is as old as civilization and writing itself. While it made perfect sense to keep the internal division of metric at base 10, there was no real reason to use a base 10 metric for the size of the earth.
May 14th, 2014 at 4:39:30 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Pacomartin
But the 10,000 km from pole to equator was always a notional one. The earth is not a perfect sphere, and there is no way to measure the earth to any degree of accuracy in 1790's. They used bars as an approximation. Later in the 19th century they made the bars out of platinum and irdium with a special cross cut to minimize torsion.


Alright, web both seem to know what we are talking about but are coming from different sides of things. Tine for other subjects.

I was looking for a clip where John Laroquette damages the official inch but didn't see it on yt.
The President is a fink.
May 14th, 2014 at 6:07:54 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
I was looking for a clip where John Laroquette damages the official inch but didn't see it on yt.


(18 Jan 94) "Don't Drink and Drive Nuclear Waste" Entrusted for a few moments with the official United State inch, John can't resist peeking -- and damages it.

Why don't they put these old sitcoms on the web? It can't cost much, and if they get a little advertising money, it has to be better than just leaving them in the vault.

Quote: AZDuffman
Alright, web both seem to know what we are talking about but are coming from different sides of things. Tine for other subjects.


Final word: If you remember that nautical miles and meters are both earth based measurements, you can always go from kilometers to nautical miles without a computer.
Remember 90 degree*60 minutes = 5400 minutes , so 54.00 nautical miles = 100.00 kilometers.

It is easier than remembering 62.137 statute miles = 100.00 kilometers because statute miles are not based on the size of the planet.
May 15th, 2014 at 2:58:06 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Pacomartin

Why don't they put these old sitcoms on the web? It can't cost much, and if they get a little advertising money, it has to be better than just leaving them in the vault.


One problem is the residuals and rights can be way more tied up than you think. You think Tom Hanks is going to let "Bosom Buddies" show if he can avoid it? And some are just bad. I watched about 10 minutes of "The Duck Factory" on youtube and saw why they canceled the thing. Not that I loved it, but some are just bad.



Quote:
Final word: If you remember that nautical miles and meters are both earth based measurements, you can always go from kilometers to nautical miles without a computer.
Remember 90 degree*60 minutes = 5400 minutes , so 54.00 nautical miles = 100.00 kilometers.

It is easier than remembering 62.137 statute miles = 100.00 kilometers because statute miles are not based on the size of the planet.


I more have to convert perches to feet and deal with what drunk surveyors wrote with bad equipment and changes in magnetic declination over 100+ years.
The President is a fink.
May 15th, 2014 at 7:40:35 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
I more have to convert perches to feet and deal with what drunk surveyors wrote with bad equipment and changes in magnetic declination over 100+ years.


Do modern deeds simply use GPS coordinates? We have a case where a bridge seems to have been built in 1929 by a private individual outside of his property line. Today it is not on anyone's property, but it is in disrepair and the municipality doesn't want to replace it since they claim it is a private bridge. No one can explain how a private bridge can exist if it's not on private property.

steel beam on bridge
May 15th, 2014 at 7:58:42 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Pacomartin
Do modern deeds simply use GPS coordinates? We have a case where a bridge seems to have been built in 1929 by a private individual outside of his property line. Today it is not on anyone's property, but it is in disrepair and the municipality doesn't want to replace it since they claim it is a private bridge. No one can explain how a private bridge can exist if it's not on private property.


I have never seen a deed using GPS. Modern deeds for small lots usually have a filed plan. If the lot is larger it will still use metes and bounds or its section/town/range if on the universal survey system. Actually GPS would not be an acceptable way to plot land because you have to think in terms of what if GPS is not available in the future?

As to the bridge, it could have been a few things. In PA 6% of private land was initially subject to reservation for roads and I figure most states had this kind of plan. Or the land might have been sold off at some point. What you have to do is find who owns all the land around the bridge now, then plot it out. Then you need to go to the recorder's office and trace all the deeds back to before the bridge was built. At each stage you need to see if the property was then larger, eventually you should see who's land the bridge was on. Then you need to take that person forward and see when it was sold off.

For a one-time job like this I would want $400 a day plus $50 for food and you pick up the hotel, plus $0.50 per mile from my place both ways. And I warn in advance what I find may be inconclusive but if it it I will completely explain what the ownership around the bridge looked like then, mapped out as best possible.
The President is a fink.
May 15th, 2014 at 9:00:53 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
For a one-time job like this I would want $400 a day plus $50 for food and you pick up the hotel, plus $0.50 per mile from my place both ways. And I warn in advance what I find may be inconclusive but if it it I will completely explain what the ownership around the bridge looked like then, mapped out as best possible.


Well that low compared to $200/hour for lawyers time. The 12 property owners affected are already in $60K, and there is no conclusion in 10 years. As far as we know the land under the bridge has not been private property since Thomas Penn died in 1775 . One of the houses was begun in 1790.

1939 aerial photo

It wouldn't be a problem, but the farm road has been destroyed, and there is no egress to the property other than the bridge.
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