Gun Control

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May 20th, 2014 at 5:30:30 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Posts: 368
and don't give them any excuse to legislate
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
May 20th, 2014 at 5:45:01 AM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3112
I wonder the legal implications?

I pay no mind to these signs. I follow Federal law pertaining to schools, courts, post office, whatever. But for private establishments, call me extremist =p

I do make it a point to not patronize them. I used to get dragged to Starbucks for work. They wanted coffee, I wanted to get out of the office, so I'd pay $5 for a $0.35 pastry and $4 for a $0.15 hot chocolate. Since the gun thing, which to their credit, they handled about as well as an anti-gun thing could be handled, I haven't bought a thing. But I still get dragged there.

If something were to pop off, what legal ramifications would one face? I'm assuming none, rather the sign could give them cause to ask you to leave or trespass you if it came to that. But otherwise, what of it?

Starbucks, casinos, whatever. I carry everywhere and will continue to do so. So they have a sign? I do too, and mine's bigger. Check it out next time you're at the National Archives.

Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 20th, 2014 at 6:48:38 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 671
Lol. Nice sign.
Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. -ersatz Buddha
May 20th, 2014 at 6:50:42 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 99
Posts: 6300
Quote: Face
I wonder the legal implications?

I pay no mind to these signs. I follow Federal law pertaining to schools, courts, post office, whatever. But for private establishments, call me extremist =p

I do make it a point to not patronize them. I used to get dragged to Starbucks for work. They wanted coffee, I wanted to get out of the office, so I'd pay $5 for a $0.35 pastry and $4 for a $0.15 hot chocolate. Since the gun thing, which to their credit, they handled about as well as an anti-gun thing could be handled, I haven't bought a thing. But I still get dragged there.

If something were to pop off, what legal ramifications would one face? I'm assuming none, rather the sign could give them cause to ask you to leave or trespass you if it came to that. But otherwise, what of it?

Starbucks, casinos, whatever. I carry everywhere and will continue to do so. So they have a sign? I do too, and mine's bigger. Check it out next time you're at the National Archives.


If you are going to be an extremist, please come to the meetings.....

As to legal ramifications, they might vary.

Obviously Federal Installations can get you pinched. Everything from airports, Federal Office Buildings, nuclear power plants, and even the USPS will probably all have some kind of force of law behind them.

State regulated places might cause issue. A bank or casino could carry the force of state law, or not. Tribal casinos in any state could be yet another level of force of law.

The thing on all of them, though, is if a person commited another crime some DA with too much time could add a "gun enhancement" wven if the gun was never shown. If you commit no crimes no big deal, but if you are going to count cards leave your gun at home.

But a Starbucks? At most I figure they could read you the trespass act and 86 you from all of their stores. If you were showing up again and again they might call the local cops to show they are serious. I doubt you could be arrested.

As to SBUX, I have been on strike there since their CEO decided he did not want my business over gay marriage. Shame, I liked their iced caramel machiato. I'll kill time somewhere else before I deal tonight.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
May 20th, 2014 at 9:25:54 AM permalink
Beethoven
Member since: Apr 27, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 640
Quote: Face
Starbucks, casinos, whatever. I carry everywhere and will continue to do so.
+1

You're my freakin hero. You've almost got as much balls as that daredevil Ukranian kid. lol

I don't carry in casinos because I'm still unsure of the (possible) criminal consequences, but I think you may have just inspired me. ;)


Quote: AZDuffman
As to SBUX, I have been on strike there since their CEO decided he did not want my business over gay marriage.
Me too.

I also stopped using Apple products after they discriminated against traditional marriage supporters a few years ago:

Apple-Approved 'Anti-Gay' App Disappears From App Store
Boron Boron Boron rhymes with moron, moron, moron
May 20th, 2014 at 9:54:24 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Feeling left (pun intended) out here, I haven't drunk French wines in 30 years :-)
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
May 20th, 2014 at 10:22:43 AM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3112
Quote: Beethoven
+1

You're my freakin hero. You've almost got as much balls as that daredevil Ukranian kid. lol

I don't carry in casinos because I'm still unsure of the (possible) criminal consequences, but I think you may have just inspired me. ;)


There's nothing to it. Really. It's not bravery or stupidity or cowboy mentality or anything. It's really quite simple.

First, I see people get pinched at the casino all the time. I mean all the time. Tribal casino, tribal lands, inside the People's Republic. There are signs posted at all entrances forbidding it. 100% of the time, whether on a person or in a room, Security shows up with the Sheriffs, advises them they can't have it here, and the patron either leaves, or in cases where's he's come from afar and can't, the Sheriffs will hold it for him. No arrests, no charges, and as long and you don't cop an attitude, no fuss (other than having to choose guns or gambling). I don't speak for all establishments or even all casinos, but that's what I've seen here.

Second, while I completely support open carry, I do so pragmatically. It's totally illegal here, but I do it all the time. When I'm in the woods. When I don't have strategy to worry about, when I don't have public fear to worry about, when the only thing that will see it and the only reason I need it are bears and wild dogs. In public, when carrying for self defense, I'm completely concealed. I don't want any would-be crook knowing I'm carrying, so nobody knows I'm carrying. That's the point of concealment. So... if no one knows, there's no issue. A sign, many signs, no sign, it's all the same. And if it so happens to peek out, then they tell me to leave and I do. I don't want a $5 pastry anyways =p

And last, like I say in all these threads to the anti's who think I have tough guy syndrome or whatever, it's really no big deal. Maybe in the first few months it was noticeable or awkward, but after all these years, it's just another tool like my fishing pliers or cell phone. It gets tucked away in case I need it, and then I forget all about it until I get in my truck and I sit on it. That's how every carrier I know is. And if you go shopping at the mall, I can almost guarantee you pass a handful of folks all packing heat, and everything is as normal as ever.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 20th, 2014 at 10:54:07 AM permalink
Beethoven
Member since: Apr 27, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 640
Quote: Face
I don't speak for all establishments or even all casinos, but that's what I've seen here.
I'm very curious how casinos here in Vegas handle situations with firearms. Do any of the locals out there know?
Boron Boron Boron rhymes with moron, moron, moron
May 20th, 2014 at 10:55:43 AM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 615
Quote: Face
]And if you go shopping at the mall, I can almost guarantee you pass a handful of folks all packing heat, and everything is as normal as ever.


Until it isn't. The problem is, Face, that there are plenty of gun owners who aren't as responsible as you, who have a statistical probability of going off their rocker and using their gun when they shouldn't be. So, though you might be perfectly responsible carrying that weapon around at the mall, there is a small but real likelihood that someone irresponsible or someone who loses their cool will also be at that mall.

I know that gun ownership is a 2nd amendment right, but I would like to see some sanity applied to the law, literally. We've all been worthy opponents in the other gun control thread over at WoV, so I am not going into a bickering argument.

Secondly, to the point of using a gun to defend property, I think that too has to be taken with a grain of salt. Armed robbery, even when you are carrying, doesn't mean that you will use your weapon or that you will even be able to get a hand on it. Look at Face's story months ago about the guy who came into his home unexpectedly, and he's a very responsible, predictable guy (it seems).

For me, property isn't just that important to me that i would risk my life or have someone else risk theirs because I am carrying. All we really have in life is life itself. Our possessions and money don't matter, and certainly don't matter when we're dead. So, for such a weapon where deciding to use has capital consequences, I choose not to. Face feels like he can carry that responsibility, and so far, he has. But for every ten thousand Face's out there, there's one who screws up (on an annual basis).

And that's the rub. 99% of you are probably just fine with owning and carrying a handgun, so why take it away from the 1%? One could argue the same thing for seat belts, child car safety seats, food safety, and so on and so forth. At some point the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
May 20th, 2014 at 11:03:31 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Not to cherry-pick here, but Aurora is an example of a possible response to a real threat, not to property but to life, had a responsible carrier been present. Absent the presence of any meaningful counter-force there was widespread carnage. There have been numerous mall and fast food restaurant incidents where innocents were cut down as they had no means of defense.
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
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