Gun Control

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May 20th, 2014 at 12:08:40 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 7131
Quote: boymimbo
Until it isn't. The problem is, Face, that there are plenty of gun owners who aren't as responsible as you, who have a statistical probability of going off their rocker and using their gun when they shouldn't be. So, though you might be perfectly responsible carrying that weapon around at the mall, there is a small but real likelihood that someone irresponsible or someone who loses their cool will also be at that mall.


There are all kinds of goofballs doing all kinds of things at malls, no reason to deprive me of my rights and safety. From what I have seen, the biggest danger of firearms injury at malls comes from gang members who are out looking for trouble. Profile for this and you reduce your chances for gunplay I'd estimate 99%.

Quote:
I know that gun ownership is a 2nd amendment right, but I would like to see some sanity applied to the law, literally. We've all been worthy opponents in the other gun control thread over at WoV, so I am not going into a bickering argument.


"All States shall issue conceal-carry permits on demand unless the applicant can be found to be criminal or currently of weak mind. No jurisdiction may ban ownership of firearms to same."

Seems sane to me.


Quote:
And that's the rub. 99% of you are probably just fine with owning and carrying a handgun, so why take it away from the 1%? One could argue the same thing for seat belts, child car safety seats, food safety, and so on and so forth. At some point the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


Yes, the needs of the many responsible gun owners outweigh the needs of the few who are out to commit crimes. Namely the few who want to commit crimes need the first group disarmed.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
May 20th, 2014 at 12:26:46 PM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3167
Quote: boymimbo
We've all been worthy opponents in the other gun control thread over at WoV, so I am not going into a bickering argument.


Of course. I wouldn't think you're here to flame. I need you here, just as I need AZD in gay threads. Without you here and him there, every thread would just be "Yeah, +1!!". We need the opposition =)

Although we're sort of back to the circular argument again. It is my belief that those "crazy guys off their rocker" are always going to have access to guns. There's 300mm of them here spread amongst 50mm people. I cannot think of, nor have I heard, how in the world one could prevent the nut job from gaining access. And please don't tell me "make a law" ;) It might not be "cool", it might not be the best scenario, but because of the state of things I think the cliche runs true - the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, etc...

The property one I'm still on the fence on, and I suppose I need to know what you're talking about specifically. As we've argued before, a robber entering your house might just be after your DVD player to pawn for a bag. No, the loss of a disposable, $100 item isn't worth a life. But again, as we've argued before, no burglar announces his intent or makes an appointment. You don't know who is showing up and for what. Look at the CCTV videos of home invasions. Sure, there are many where one sneaks in and bolts upon detection. But there's just as many where the home owner, often female and/or elderly, are pummeled in unconsciousness by some scumbag for reasons unknown and left to die. If someone has to die "unfairly", I'd rather it be a thief (no matter how insignificant the take) than a random, innocent citizen minding their own business.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 20th, 2014 at 12:29:53 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3167
Quote: AZDuffman

"All States shall issue conceal-carry permits on demand unless the applicant can be found to be criminal or currently of weak mind. No jurisdiction may ban ownership of firearms to same."


Must be nice to live in a "Shall-Issue" state =p
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 20th, 2014 at 12:56:45 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 111
Posts: 12169
Quote: boymimbo

For me, property isn't just that important to me that i would risk my life or have someone else risk theirs because I am carrying.


It's not about the property, it's about the unknown
element. You don't know what the stranger
involved will do. Countless people like you have had
sweetness and light attitudes about life and guns,
until they got robbed, or were in a situation where
they needed a gun. And most of those countless
people are now registered gun owners.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 20th, 2014 at 1:32:45 PM permalink
Beethoven
Member since: Apr 27, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 640
Quote: Evenbob
It's not about the property, it's about the unknown
element. You don't know what the stranger
involved will do.
+1

One of my favorite posts on WoV was when a lib said that if you have a gun and get attacked by someone who doesn't have a gun, you should not shoot to kill. You should just shoot them in the knee instead. lol
Boron Boron Boron rhymes with moron, moron, moron
May 20th, 2014 at 1:47:01 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 111
Posts: 12169
Quote: Beethoven
One of my favorite posts on WoV was when a lib said that if you have a gun and get attacked by someone who doesn't have a gun, you should not shoot to kill. You should just shoot them in the knee instead. lol


That's because naive people think real life
situations happen just like they do on TV.
They don't, not even close. Real life fist
fights last about 15-20 seconds, if that long.
If you get mugged, it's over almost before
you realize it happened. If you catch a stranger
in your home, he's going run, or immediately
do something violent. He's not going to get
into a conversation with you or give you chance
to shoot him in the knee.

Face had a confrontation, but it was not with a
stranger, he knew the guy. It's not usually like
that.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 20th, 2014 at 2:17:48 PM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3167
Quote: Evenbob
That's because naive people think real life
situations happen just like they do on TV.
They don't, not even close. Real life fist
fights last about 15-20 seconds, if that long.
If you get mugged, it's over almost before
you realize it happened. If you catch a stranger
in your home, he's going run, or immediately
do something violent. He's not going to get
into a conversation with you or give you chance
to shoot him in the knee.

Face had a confrontation, but it was not with a
stranger, he knew the guy. It's not usually like
that.


They have no idea. I have no idea. And that's quite the point. Watch this from 1:15...

**WARNING: GRAPHIC VIOLENCE**



There's laws against trespass, against assault, against battery, against endangering the welfare of a child. Lot of good that did.

5 seconds from chilling with your daughter and hearing a knock at your door, to being beaten mercilessly in front of your kid. IN FRONT OF YOUR KID! He could've easily killed her. He could've killed the kid. There was a one year old upstairs, too. Could've killed, kidnapped, raped, whatever he wanted.

Did the laws protect? Were the police there? Did she have time to do any single thing whatsoever? No, no, and no.

Look around. Just type "violent home invasion" into the YouTube and be ready to miss your supper. It happens all the time. Really, because of one mistake, one oversight because my mind was elsewhere, the only reason I'm still here today is lack of will. If dude wanted to have me that night, y'all would be in a thread titled "Where is Face?", and my ass would be rotting in the hills.

This is what happens in real life. Watch all the ones you can find and put yourself in the victim's shoes. Many of these are broad daylight. Someone approaches and you think "Huh. Wonder what they're selling". And before you can even think, you and your whole family are seconds from death.

No effing way. Shoot him in the knee? If I could aim that well in that scenario, I'd put it right between his eyes.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 20th, 2014 at 4:02:03 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 111
Posts: 12169
Quote: Face
This is what happens in real life. Watch all the ones you can find and put yourself in the victim's shoes. Many of these are broad daylight. .


This is why Boymimbo is so far off the mark. He's
never seen or experienced bad violence first hand.
It happens amazingly fast and you're in it before
you even know what's going on.

Maybe being armed will help you, maybe it won't.
Better to be prepared than not.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 20th, 2014 at 4:18:52 PM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3167
Quote: Evenbob
This is why Boymimbo is so far off the mark. He's
never seen or experienced bad violence first hand.
It happens amazingly fast and you're in it before
you even know what's going on.

Maybe being armed will help you, maybe it won't.
Better to be prepared than not.


I wish it was just him. I wish it was just the anti's. But I hear it with gunners, too.

"If this, do that". "Well if that happens, then I'll do this". That's not realistic.

Nothing ever goes as planned. I had planned to have the run in I had, sure. I knew there was a high probability of it. I never in my wildest dreams imagined any bit of it wouldn't went the way it did. Not one single bit.

Perhaps my experiences give me a different outlook. Hockey is full of them. I piss people off all the time, and at least 50% of the time, I have no idea why. When bodies clash, all sorts of stuff happens. Elbows go into ribs, knees hit knees, sticks hit faces. More often than not, I have no idea I've just offended someone until I'm in a headlock from behind and someone's trying to inflict blunt force trauma on my face. There is no "If he gets me in a headlock, then I'll...", there's no "If he grabs my right shoulder, then I'll...". There's none of that. You just suddenly find yourself in the shit and you react.

My driving thread is another perfect example. There I listed a ton of stuff that goes wrong, how to avoid it, and what to do when you're in it. But that's just theory. When it actually happens to you, you're not going to think back to what I've written. What you need to do is take what I've written and go practice, go train, because when the SHTF, you can only react.

Self defense is the exact same thing. Shooting knees or drawing in hopes if scaring away or whatever plan you have in your head will never, ever go the way you have in your head. You can only train, ponder, think about what you're doing and become familiar with your weapon. Because when the SHTF, there is no thinking. Only acting.

I think that they think that I think my gun is a panacea. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the right circumstances, in very many circumstances, actually, I could die with my gun in my pocket, never having a chance to get it. But if something pops off, I want that opportunity. I want a chance. A gun gives me that. Having no gun leaves my life to luck, and that's not a thought I'm comfortable with.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 20th, 2014 at 7:30:19 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 7131
Quote: Face
Must be nice to live in a "Shall-Issue" state =p


Move down. Bring your shop. We'll build a 426 Hemi.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
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