Owning Mahowny
May 22nd, 2014 at 8:52:07 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Yes, without God there can be no objective morality. Without God we can't really call anything good or bad, everything becomes subjective like Evenbob described a few posts up. What I don't think he realizes is what a horror subjective morality is and how impossible it is to truly hold. If good and bad only depend on our circumstances and what we are taught than can we say what the Nazis did was good?!? There is absolutely a true and objective sense of what is right and wrong that is implanted within us by God's gift to us of reason. This is not a contradiction to the fact that without God there is not TRUE right and wrong. In fact for me the existence of God is the only way to adequately explain what we both agree on, namely that we are all from Australia to Zimbabwae born with a natural sense of right and wrong that is fundamentally the same. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 22nd, 2014 at 9:10:21 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
To the Nazi's it was good, that's why they did it. To say good and evil don't exist outside of god is not true. We invent god, then give him impossible powers and responsibilities. I've always said god and religion are a cop out, they prevent people from really examining their lives. The religious leaders tell them, worry not, me and god and Jesus have done all the heavy lifting for you, relax. Not hardly.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 23rd, 2014 at 3:24:03 AM permalink | |
beachbumbabs Member since: Sep 3, 2013 Threads: 6 Posts: 1600 |
Fr Gamble, Never forget, on the internet, the first party who brings up Nazis loses the argument. :) Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has |
May 23rd, 2014 at 5:51:38 AM permalink | |
1nickelmiracle Member since: Mar 5, 2013 Threads: 24 Posts: 623 | Shouldn't gambling threads devolved be at wizardofvegas.com ? |
May 23rd, 2014 at 8:08:46 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Lol, I forgot about that rule but in this case the one who says that there is way we can consider what the Nazis did as good is the real loser. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 23rd, 2014 at 8:57:34 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
It's a stupid rhetorical trick, not a rule. The thing is too many people bring up Nazis and/or Hitler as comparisons to things that fall waaaaay short. Still, that does not mean you can't point out similarities with Nazi methods, when warranted, or use them as an example when it fits. In a novella by H. Beam Piper, a character called General Carlos von Schlichten (interesting reasons for that name) fights a native rebellion in another planet. At one point he does something really nasty in one region to prevent the war from spreading to antoher region. When called on it, he acknowledges "It's a trick I learned from my Nazi ancestors." Of course there's much wrong with that sentence (Nazi is not an ethnicity, for starters). And in some parallel universe there surely is a Hitler rule, wherein the first person to bring up the hated Goodwin loses the argument ;) Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 23rd, 2014 at 12:54:06 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
I said the Nazi's thought what they were doing was good. Where did I say 'we' can consider it good. No wonder you're confused about about what sin is. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 23rd, 2014 at 3:27:46 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
So Bob are you going to say that we can't say what anyone does is objectively evil because they thought they were doing good? Are you going to hold to your crazy idea that good and evil and just "a matter of your position in the event or idea."? By allowing this subjective morality you are indeed saying that we have no right to call what the Nazi's or anyone else did as evil or bad because it is their opinion and their position! This is bullshit and I might very well get suspended for saying it. There are things that are objectively wrong and it doesn't matter what your position, opinion, or circumstances are. For example I know it is wrong to curse on these posts no matter who you are or what the circumstances are but darn it this subjective morality crap gets me a little riled up. I have sinned, mea culpa and I accept the punishment. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 23rd, 2014 at 3:52:25 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Again, what's evil to you may not be evil to someone else. We used to play the good and evil game in philosophy class. A traffic accident where someone dies is evil to the person who died and for his family. Yet it's good for the person who collects the body, it's how he makes his living. It's good for the mortician and the grave digger. It's evil for the dead mans kids, they won't go to college now. Yet it's good for the man who gets promoted to fill the dead guys job. You can go on and on with different stories. Good and evil don't exist on their own, they're just your opinion on how an event effects you. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 23rd, 2014 at 4:00:52 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Yes, life would be so much easier for religious people if we just accepted the 'crap' as the truth and never questioned it. The Church got so 'riled up' at the stupidity of the public that they instituted forced conversions, as you well know. I fully believe they would have them now if they could get away with it. Look at your own reaction, you just can't understand why I don't see things your way. "The Spanish Inquisition targeted primarily forced converts from Judaism who came under suspicion of either continuing to adhere to their old religion or of having fallen back into it." If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |