cheaper than coal

For renewable energy to succeed in the market, (without government subsidies) it needs to be cheaper than coal.

If mass-produced, these two different machines both look promising. Time will tell...

Quote: reno

For renewable energy to succeed in the market, (without government subsidies) it needs to be cheaper than coal.

If mass-produced, these two different machines both look promising. Time will tell...

It also has to be more reliable than coal. Even if solar got price competitive with coal, remember at best solar only works 50% of the time. But it will usually be less than 50% unless you are in a place where it never rains. Other thing is it has to be steady. If wind does not blow the power does not flow.

I predict today's solar technology will not ever be widely usable. Either we will get a technological breakthrough, say beaming solar power from satellites to earth, or we will figure how to drill many miles deep and use the natural heat to generate steam to make electricity. Maybe something else. But today's solar is IMHO a false hope and start.

I don't think we need to figure out how to use thermal... we just need to make it cost effective. Alco in Iceland has been using it for a long time. It's the same with other sources.

Solar and wind will be used as sources, but probably as top up rather than the core source. Solar power works on cloudy days (may be not as effectively, but it doesn't turn off). IF solar cells can be made to be more effective, I think it'll be a more common source for home and small business in the future. Hydro's best feature as "alternative" is that you can bank it. Solar and wind isn't bank able. Tidal power isn't either. Hydrogen as a energy store seems to have stalled (for good reason).

Right now geothermal needs the right formations to work. Research will improve that over time. Solar works on cloudy days but not as well. It never works at night do can never be a primary source.

Quote: AZDuffman

Right now geothermal needs the right formations to work. Research will improve that over time. Solar works on cloudy days but not as well. It never works at night do can never be a primary source.

Never say never... if there's some sort of improved battery/energy storage system, things may change.

Quote: TheCesspit

Never say never... if there's some sort of improved battery/energy storage system, things may change.

While it is ad to say never you are talking about a improvement on the magnitude of several 100 times (not percent, times). Given we have been developing batteries for over100 years I do not see it.

Quote: reno

For renewable energy to succeed in the market, (without government subsidies) it needs to be cheaper than coal.

Why? Doesn't it just need to be cheaper than the marginal fuel, which is natural gas?

Quote: AZDuffman

While it is ad to say never you are talking about a improvement on the magnitude of several 100 times (not percent, times). Given we have been developing batteries for over100 years I do not see it.

Battery technology has grown VASTLY superior in the last 2 decades. I'm not sure it will do the same again, but energy storage systems may well improve (see fuel cell technologies). In the end, it might not need to get vastly superior. It might be that as carbon-based, dense energy supplies fade (at some point they must... 10, 50, 100 years) lower density energy stores are the only way forward, and become the most cost effective way... so solar/battery is the primary energy source of the planet.

Quote: TheCesspit

so solar/battery is the primary energy source of the planet.

Sounds about right. Wind/battery and tidal/battery could also easily it in.

Quote: AZDuffman

Even if solar got price competitive with coal, remember at best solar only works 50% of the time.

Can you back up this statement with a source? Because Europe already has commercial solar power plants which produce electricity at night after the sun sets.