Confessional

Quote: Evenbob

The Catholic church? The Church that started
the Crusades and the Inquisitions? That sanctioned
witch hunts and executions? The Church that
'punished' vile pedophiles by transferring them to
another diocese and sweeping the matter under
the rug? That's your god representing himself?

Umm...that was kind of my point. Sorry you didn't get it.

Quote: Evenbob

Free will is a concept that doesn't exist
in reality. It's an illusion. We run on
auto pilot for 99% of the decisions we
make in life, free will never enters into
it.

Where you free to write this crazy talk?

Quote:

You have
to believe in the Christian god, you
have zero choice in the matter.

What kind of nonsense is this? Do you know my story, not at all if you did you would know that nothing of what you said applies to me or reality.

Quote: FrGamble

Umm...that was kind of my point. Sorry you didn't get it.

This is what people see. If your Church is
doing it, no matter how horrific, you must
think it's god telling you to do it. There
is no god, so it's really just a bunch of
men doing what they want in a gods
name. Put the blame on god is what
they do and that makes everything all
right. Who will argue with that.

Quote: FrGamble

Do you know my story,

Lemme guess, you worked for some place like this ,then you got fed up with facts and became a priest??

Quote: FrGamble

Where you free to write this crazy talk?
.

You mistake free will with decision making.

"None of us have any real control over our behavior, our emotions, even our thoughts—though our brains are designed to make us believe that we in fact do. Indeed, we may consciously deliberate over our actions, but even this is just the dueling between different parts of the brain.. Whatever portion of the brain which “wins” leads us to commit a given action. You don’t control your brain; your brain controls you."

This goes on and on, entire books have been
written about free will being an illusion. We're
more like badly programmed robots, not clear
thinking agents of free will. We act and react
how we've been taught to act and react. We
respond and make decisions using the template
that makes us the most comfortable. The only
reason I don't believe in god, is I wasn't taught
to as a child, and nobody talked me into it as
a young man. So I was allowed to come to a
rational decision on my own.

To you this is a big deal because you've been
taught it's a wrong to not believe in god. For
me, it's on the same level as not liking raisins
in fudge. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the
lowest, it's rates a zero. It's like you
carry around this huge burden, this giant
heavy boulder on your back, called god. It
weighs you down, makes you act rigidly and
compulsively. It's so different than what I've
discovered about life. But that's what makes
it interesting, we may not have free will, but
that doesn't mean it has to be dull.

Quote: rxwine

You might as well be traveling on one of those old timey horse drawn wagons and selling "magic" elixirs. You have a more organized crew, but it's just the same otherwise.

No, they're not anything so benign.

Quote: FrGamble

However, the jury cannot at the end of the trial determine that the dead body just came out of nowhere and there is no cause.

the jury doesn't have to solve the crime and pin down every little detail in order to render a verdict.

Quote:

It can only say that it is not convinced that it is God.

No, it can only say there is no evidence for any kind of god.

Come on. Do you believe in the many thousands of true gods which have existed in human practice for thousands upon thousands of years? You're as much an atheist as I am, only I believe in one god fewer than you do.

Quote:

The other problem is that I don't think the burden of proof is the same in our debate about faith in God as it is in the courtroom.

Right, because one should base the most important decision in one's life on nothing at all.

Here's a question: If the pope were dying of cancer, would you favor employing the doctors and treatments that are proven to have the better chance at a successful cure, or would you be ok employing homeopathy or some other bogus "cure" because so many people have such faith in it? After all, plenty of people have attested to their effectiveness. There are a myriad books about how effective the bogus cures are.

Quote: Evenbob

This is what people see. If your Church is
doing it, no matter how horrific, you must
think it's god telling you to do it.

Why must you think that? I would think that if you look at the life of Christ you would have to think the opposite. If the Church is doing something wrong then it must be going against what Christ so clearly taught and be under the influence of the temptations of power, greed, etc.

Quote: Evenbob

The only
reason I don't believe in god, is I wasn't taught
to as a child, and nobody talked me into it as
a young man. So I was allowed to come to a
rational decision on my own.

So you are allowed to come to your own rational decision but because I believe in God I am not. I did happen to come on my own to a rational decision to believe in God. Again I continue to be concerned that your foundations for belief in something are not very well formed. If the only reason you believe in something is because it was taught to you at a child I shudder to think what you must still believe today.

Quote:

To you this is a big deal because you've been
taught it's a wrong to not believe in god.

I don't know if it is wrong. It is certainly not rational but we all do a lot of things in our life that are not rational and based more on our feelings or wishes than reality. I believe that God understands that and often our lack of belief is based on our experiences growing up and what we were taught.

Quote: FrGamble

Why must you think that?

Because the pope sanctioned the Crusades
and the Inquisitions in gods name, that
was my first clue. God told them to do it,
that's how it works.