Confessional

Quote: zippyboy

I thought this thread was for serious regret and atonement. Like the time you left a hit-n-run accident, one where you caused a fatality, and got away with it.

Those who do those kinds of things are probably not sorry about it to begin with. I suspect those who genuinely feel badly about huring others, like FrG's parking lot story, are those whose conscience keeps them doing the right thing most of the time anyway.

Quote: zippyboy

That's your confession???

I thought it was an insightful story, well told.

Quote: zippyboy

Are we gonna hear any stories like that?

Unlikely. The internet isn't that anonymous.

Quote: Wizard

are those whose conscience keeps them doing the right thing most of the time anyway.

Sometimes it just doesn't matter one whit what you've done most of the time.

Nauvoo was almost like a second home when I was growing up; my grandparents lived there. However, they were Catholic. Shortly after they died the Mormons returned and built a temple and there were rumors of turning it into Salt Lake City of the Midwest... I guess through some cosmic intervention I didn't have to ever return there to see this atrocity..

Quote: The Free Dictionary

for·give (fər-gĭv′, fôr-)
v. for·gave (-gāv′), for·giv·en (-gĭv′ən), for·giv·ing, for·gives
v.tr.
1. To give up resentment against or stop wanting to punish (someone) for an offense or fault; pardon.
2. To relent in being angry or in wishing to exact punishment for (an offense or fault).
3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).

How do you do this?

Quote: Face

How do you do this?

Unless you have experienced it, I don't think you can replicate it.

Quote: Face

How do you do this?

Well, if you don't need the money owed to you, and if you didn't loan it as an investment, and/or you can write it off for tax purposes, it's not that hard to forgive a loan.

The first two definitions are a different matter. Before figuring out how, a more important questions is "Should you?"

Quote: Ayecarumba

Unless you have experienced it, I don't think you can replicate it.

That does not bode well.

Someone in my life has been urging me to forgive and I've not been able. Like, not even close. Not even a step in the direction of. Barely a glance. It's got me thinking and has made me reflect, and while I'm in the early stages of reflection, I'm having difficulty finding a time when I've ever done so.

"Absolving of debt" I've done, sure. Too much, in fact. I'm a sucker like that. But it feels like #1 and #2 are the most important when it comes to peace and self love, and all I'm seeing in myself is a gaping void.

I do get over stuff. I usually just use my head and all the psychology I've soaked up over the years. I can identify what went wrong, how I took it, WHY I took it that way, a number of different ways I COULD take it,... if somewhere in there I can find logic, I can usually get over it. I work very hard to "get over things". It usually works pretty good for me.

But it's not forgiveness. Going through my history I find it in example after example. Yes, I understand why a friend of mine did something, I understand WHY it made me so mad. I can choose to take it another way instead, realize the scope of the situation, and viola, I'm on my way to getting over it. But to this day I do not trust this guy, and he's a pretty good friend. I've compartmentalized him, that is, I allow him here, here, and here in my life. But this, that, and the other are completely off limits to him. He f#$%ed up. He no longer is allowed access to all of me. I can remember another friend. At the time, he was the only non-family member I had access to. He was a fishing partner, a burning partner, a riding partner. I put 10k miles on the road with this guy at my side. He was late fishing once. It pissed me off, but I got over. He stood me up the next week. I haven't talked to him since. Boom. You're done. I'm obviously over it. But I've also obviously not forgiven.

I do feel like many (most?) people who say they forgive are really just doing this. They got over it, but have they really forgiven? If you are letting your sister back in your house and you're getting along, but you make sure to put up / hide your wallet and loose cash whenever she's there, is that really forgiveness? It doesn't strike me as so, and that's not the type I'm trying to learn.

I'm told that no matter how deep the slight, there's this forgiveness that allows you to let go. That you can decide (choose? work towards?) to release that pain. That trust, love, happiness, all that can come back. I... just don't even know where to start. HOW to start.

I'd usually just cast the person free and work on getting over it. It's worked so far. But when the person cannot be cast, then what? That's where I'm at,... and I almost just said I'm "a little lost" lol. Truth is, I don't have the faintest clue where to begin. And to say I've been "drinking poison expecting my enemy to die" is another laughable understatement. Sadly, it's about all I intake anymore.

I dunno. I'll leave this here. Might be pointless, but it just might help.

Quote: Face

How do you do this?

Personally, I dwell on it until it burns itself out of fuel. : )

The trick is, and this is true for many things, is to find out what it is that you really want.

Do you understand why you are angry?

Quote: Face

... I work very hard to "get over things".

How did those things, become "things"? Just recently, 3 people said, Face...you are your own worst enemy? If it's any consolation, most of us are, because we are the only ones with that power.

Quote:

I do not trust this guy, and he's a pretty good friend.

Well then, we have different interpretations of friend. It is the most over used word in the dicktionary, right after that comes "love". Make it easy on yourself, and redefine those words. Admit to yourself, that it is really you, that you wish to please.

Quote:

I do feel like many (most?) people who say they forgive are really just doing this. They got over it, but have they really forgiven?

It was faux umbridge in the first place. Probably to gain favor or attention of some kind.

Quote:

If you are letting your sister back in your house and you're getting along, but you make sure to put up / hide your wallet and loose cash whenever she's there, is that really forgiveness?

Is that love? Sounds like negative reinforcement. What do you think would be the best results if you were to trade places? If you have some undying need to be an enabler, I have some bills you can take care of. : )

Quote:

I'm told that no matter how deep the slight, there's this forgiveness that allows you to let go. That you can decide (choose? work towards?) to release that pain. That trust, love, happiness, all that can come back. I... just don't even know where to start. HOW to start.

Is it possible that you are assigning a different value to a relationship than actually existed? Try to get completely honest with yourself.

People have these social needs so they wrap themselves up in relationships, real and imagined. I see relationships as being we are just the most developed of animals. But we are still animals. We are hard wired to reproduce, a quick analogy I use is "women are gardens and men are farmers" or something like that. Look at the essence of the why of the relationship. Some people marry for money, some for the usual reasons... but one way or another, everyone is trying to get a benefit. So, we are all, in it for ourselves.

Quote:

I'd usually just cast the person free and work on getting over it. It's worked so far. But when the person cannot be cast, then what? That's where I'm at,... and I almost just said I'm "a little lost" lol. Truth is, I don't have the faintest clue where to begin.

I keep sticky notes around with "why" on them. How and why did this person get so much power over you?

Ivan was working out of town, and when he got home he found this rifles out in the yard standing against each other in the rain, along with his other belongings strewn about . He trusted his wife so much, it took him two weeks to even find out what bank, they had kept their money in. see sig