Religious vs. non-religious wars

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July 11th, 2014 at 5:14:08 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Is this discussion going to integrate finances, allowances for inflation and end this nonsensical equivalence of victims rather than evaluating the costs in terms of civilized lives. Stalin killed millions but he killed alot of middle aged and old people.
July 11th, 2014 at 7:05:06 PM permalink
Mosca
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 22
Posts: 730
Quote: FrGamble
I agree with you Mosca and it feels like being dragged into the mud using this argument. However, when I came across these statistics even I was startled because it is a widely held secular belief that religion is the source of the vast majority of wars and that is absolutely false. I'm hoping we can all spread the word that this myth is untrue and but to bed that critique concerning religion that I have heard many people including Sam Harris, George Carlin, and Bill Maher make.


Why stand and fight on this point, though? There could be NO religious wars and that wouldn't give any evidence for any religion being true. Them being wrong wouldn't make you right, just like them being right wouldn't make you wrong. It is completely irrelevant, and works to drive people apart rather than together. It hardens hearts.
July 11th, 2014 at 8:33:42 PM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 732
It bothers me a fair bit, and here's why: we know that dictators and warmongers are evil people. Christians have no valid or biblical reason to wage war except to defend themselves. So, when you make a comparison that "oh, only 3,000,000 died in the crusades, while Stalin killed tens of millions, it isn't a valid comparison. We expect Stalin to kill people. We don't expect the same from Christians.
July 12th, 2014 at 5:15:04 AM permalink
Mosca
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 22
Posts: 730
Edit, had a chance to delete this so I did. It added nothing, believe me.
July 13th, 2014 at 2:13:36 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Quote: Mosca
It added nothing, believe me.

Well, let me continue in that vein.

Lets start naming our wars properly. Was it the Sepoy Mutiny or the First War of Indian Independence?

Was it the Boer War or the Anglo-Boer War or the War of Zionist Aggression into the TransVal for Gold and Diamonds? As one officer said during the Breaker Morant Court Martial "They lack our altruism".

Perhaps we should review Count Zharov and the sale of submarines to Greece and Turkey at this time too. When neither side wanted any submarines but each side bought them

Do men Take the King's Shilling because they are without a shilling to their name?

When the Colonists cried out about No Taxation without Representation and the Quartering of Troops in their midst... should we mention that those troops were largely to put down border skirmishes between Colonists and Indians and that such Colonists that ventured into Indian Country to establish settlements were the ones responsible for the Taxation that Colonists later complained of.

Were heathen savages carrying off good Christian women starting a religious war or a war over land values?
July 13th, 2014 at 8:11:43 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: boymimbo
We expect Stalin to kill people. We don't expect the same from Christians.


You hit it there.. Mao and Stalin and Hitler were
tyrants and they kill people. Christians say they're
for love and peace, yet have killed millions in
the name of love and peace. The tyrants are
not hypocrites, the Christians are.

I'll never become a Christian because of their
track record of blatant hypocrisy. I know the
NT inside and out and the religion makes no
sense to me. If it did make sense, there would
not be 2500 (at last count) different versions
of it. And they all say they are correct. To me,
this means none of them are.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
July 16th, 2014 at 6:27:07 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Mao and Stalin were human beings. They were not born tyrants, why give them a pass on their evil sins and not Christians? As we've talked about before sin is real and no one is immune to it, even Christians. In some ways all humans are hypocrites, dare I say even you Bob. I'm sure you don't live your own personal creed and values perfectly.

This is where the NT makes perfect sense, it gives us an answer to the hypocrisy in all of us. It allows us to love and trust in a God who paid the price for our sin to set us free. We will still sin but we will be comforted by the fact that God still loves us, forgives us, cares for us, and has even saved us in our brokenness. This fact when accepted will change your life and inspire you to praise and honor God and love your neighbor and do good.

As for the many versions of the Bible you kind of have a point, even though it is not as if the message changes all that much due to translation. But that is why we need someone to authoritatively interpret the sacred texts. Why not the Church that put the Bible together in the first place, namely the Catholic Church? Just asking.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
July 16th, 2014 at 7:59:09 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
As we've talked about before sin is real and no one is immune to it, .


Something is only real if you can prove it.
An intellectual concept is not real, and
that's what sin is. Sin serves your purpose,
without it your whole religion collapses.

Santa props up Christmas and Christmas
props up Santa. But he isn't real, even tho
we tell the little kids he is. He's a concept.
Like sin..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
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