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Proper use of the word "their."

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Poll

	The tagline uses proper English.		3 votes (23.07%)
	It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.		1 vote (7.69%)
	The tagline uses improper English, but who cares?		4 votes (30.76%)
	Depends on who you're asking.		No votes (0%)
	I'm not sure.		No votes (0%)
	I agree with whatever Paco says.		1 vote (7.69%)
	I'm a bigot.		4 votes (30.76%)

13 members have voted

July 27th, 2014 at 8:42:36 PM permalink

beachbumbabs

Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600

I think that English, as a living language, can accept the common usage of "their" as an acceptable indistinct gender/neutral pronoun. It's less awkward than "his or her", and less jarring than "he" when including the feminine. "Proper"? Not really. But "he" is archaic; I think the acceptance of that as generic, when it clearly isn't, was the original error, and this corrects it in a less offensive manner. One is either man or woman; when referring to either, it seems most correct to include both.

BTW, in the example above, I think "themselves" would be more correct. I'm not even sure "themself " is a word (which this window auto-corrected and I had to force-edit it back in), but I don't think you can mix the singular and plural in a compound word and be grammatically correct.

Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has

July 28th, 2014 at 12:21:35 AM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Good god. I'm still trying to get people to stop typing 'loose' when they mean lose. And y'all are worried about the proper use of 'their'? Remember the Anal Retentive Chef on SNL? I think that applies here: https://screen.yahoo.com/anal-retentive-chef-mothers-day-000000641.html If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

July 28th, 2014 at 2:58:29 AM permalink

odiousgambit

Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5094

Today you have a lot of folks use "she" instead of "he" or "he/she" as the pronoun in such cases. In some cases I get the feeling they try to switch at random, others stick with "she" at all times.

I am totally in favor of "their" in informal writing, and think "he" is the only proper choice in formal writing. As for "he/she", that's an abomination. You can guess what I think of the practice at the top.

I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]

July 28th, 2014 at 3:58:36 AM permalink

chickenman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368

Quote: Wizard
The tagline of the movie Lucy begins, "The average person uses 10% of their brain capacity."

My former proofreader used to always get upset when I used the word "their" as the possessive form for a single person. He always said it was only to be used when referring to something that belongs to two or more people. If that is correct, then wouldn't that make the tag line wrong? Or was my proofreader wrong? May "their" be used when referring to a non-specific person of either gender? Or might the word "average" imply we're really talking about a group of people?

I think a lot of us, including me, dread using he/she in such cases. Personally, at the risk of offending my more sensitive readers, just use "he" for gender neutral cases like, "The blackjack player should never touch his cards with both hands." However, this he/she dilemma should not be license to abuse the word "their."

The question for the poll is whether the tag line is proper English?

I'm more struck by the inconsistent use of pronouns in that "their" is followed by "imagine what "she...". To completely neutralize this say, "The average person uses less than 10% of available brain capacity. Imagine what one could do with 100%.
But of course that isn't consistent with the gender of the movie and unnecessarily sterilizes the tagline so I vote simply use "her" and avoid the other issues.

He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!

July 28th, 2014 at 5:16:28 AM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: Wizard
That example shows the trouble of the lack of a gender neutral pronoun and I think is an extreme case to make a point.

Given the difficulty of making this sentence sound natural with pronouns, I think the only realistic option is to resort to participles.

(C) "The average American needs the small routines of getting ready for work. The acts of shaving, blow-drying hair, or pulling on panty-hose, is a way of easing oneself by small stages into the demands of the day."

July 28th, 2014 at 6:33:13 AM permalink
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545	Quote: chickenman I'm more struck by the inconsistent use of pronouns in that "their" is followed by "imagine what "she...". There are two references being made. One to the average person, "they," and one to the film's protagonist, "she." Nothing wrong or inconsistent. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

July 28th, 2014 at 6:34:38 AM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545

Quote: Pacomartin
Given the difficulty of making this sentence sound natural with pronouns, I think the only realistic option is to resort to participles.

There's already a pronoun: "they." Live with it.

If not, then let's use "she" for when gender isn't known or specified. As in " When a person like the Wizard says something about probability or math, you can take her statements to the bank."

What could possibky be wrong with that?

Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

July 28th, 2014 at 9:02:59 AM permalink
chickenman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 0 Posts: 368	Quote: Nareed Quote: chickenman I'm more struck by the inconsistent use of pronouns in that "their" is followed by "imagine what "she...". There are two references being made. One to the average person, "they," and one to the film's protagonist, "she." Nothing wrong or inconsistent. Get rid of the "their" if that's the take He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!

July 28th, 2014 at 12:07:34 PM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Am I the only one who thinks Scarlett is only average in the acting and looks dept? I've never seen a movie of hers I liked. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

July 29th, 2014 at 4:25:57 AM permalink

1nickelmiracle

Member since: Mar 5, 2013
Threads: 24
Posts: 623

I had forgotten this was wrong. I was a pretty good speller and good with grammar before I started using the phone to communicate, but I'm slipping. With the phone dictionary being limited, I think I'm training myself to lose my vocabulary because I start believing words aren't words because they aren't in the small dictionary. The incorrect usage of their doesn't bother me because of the lack of a better word for our needs. I happened to see Pawn Stars last night where they were looking at a math book from civil war times. English wasn't standard then and the excerpt they read was very similar to ebonics. Don't forget proper English isn't proper by itself, but just proper because those in control have decided it to be proper.

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