The dogma of The Immaculate Conception

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August 17th, 2014 at 1:22:27 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
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Quote: 1nickelmiracle
Maybe jesus has a spaceship but does it matter.
Came from Thetan according to the Scientologists.
August 17th, 2014 at 6:04:55 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
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Quote: Evenbob
What the what? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I always thought it referred to the birth of Jesus. Catholics certainly don't go
out of their way to correct this misconception.


I don't think that Catholics are trying to hide this from you, but the whole theology of "original sin" is very complex. For instance, the dogma does not imply that Mary lived a sin-free life. While she was certainly not lascivious or wanton, but she still sinned.

Besides, the entire Mariology doctrine was not invented in the first century AD when the bible was completed. She is respected as the mother of Jesus, but not revered in the bible.
August 17th, 2014 at 6:15:02 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
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Quote: Pacomartin
I don't think that Catholics are trying to hide this from you, .


No, but they don't go out of their
way to correct it either.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 18th, 2014 at 4:26:07 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
I think most of us Protestants are pretty much in disbelief that the veneration of Mary could go so far as to create a need to totally sanctify her entire existence starting with conception, so I give us all a pass.

It's not as if the Virgin Birth of Jesus is not a dogma as well, not called an immaculate conception because that phrase was already taken? This latter thing though is included in the Apostles’ Creed, something almost all Christian Churches adhere to unless I am very much mistaken, so I *do* fault those Protestants among us who sneer at the I.C. thinking we can dismiss the Virgin birth, something we are supposed to believe.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

one thing however you can count on a Protestant doing is picking and choosing the dogma he likes <g>
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
August 18th, 2014 at 11:56:39 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
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My wife's father is a Baptist minister
and she says they were taught that
Catholics were in a cult because of
what they thought about Mary. None
of it is in the Bible, this raising Mary
to such a high status.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 18th, 2014 at 2:19:19 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
Quote: Evenbob
[not] in the Bible


this is always the song the RC Catholics hear from Protestants. "Oh, where is that in Scripture?"

the 'cult' charge is pretty strong.
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
August 18th, 2014 at 6:08:34 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: odiousgambit
the 'cult' charge is pretty strong.


It is? I've heard it my entire life. People
didn't want Kennedy elected because
he was a member of that 'cult' religion.

'Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. ... The Roman Catholic church is the largest cult in the world.'

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 18th, 2014 at 7:33:39 PM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 732
Mary was a virgin. The conception was immaculate, according to the bible. Of that there is no doubt. You must believe that Mary was conceived this way if you are Christian. If a Christian can believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected two days later before later ascending to heaven, then you can probably believe in immaculate conception too.

Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel"

Matthew 1:18-23: "18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Luke 1:26-35: 26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women! 29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” 34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
August 18th, 2014 at 7:43:38 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: boymimbo
Mary was a virgin. The conception was immaculate, according to the bible.
.


Mary's was not an immaculate conception, it was made
up by the Catholics. Jesus had such a conception, but
Mary had a regular birth and was a regular person.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 18th, 2014 at 9:37:41 PM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Quote: boymimbo
Mary was a virgin. The conception was immaculate, according to the bible. Of that there is no doubt. You must believe that Mary was conceived this way if you are Christian. If a Christian can believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected two days later before later ascending to heaven, then you can probably believe in immaculate conception too.

Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel"

Matthew 1:18-23: "18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Luke 1:26-35: 26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women! 29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” 34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.


It appears to me, boymimbo, that you are confusing the Immaculate Conception of Mary with Jesus' conception, at least looking at what you've quoted.

Catholics teach that Mary herself was conceived without Original Sin, so as to be a pure vessel for the coming Christ. (The dogma I read claimed that she was without sin, Original or venal, at least up until Christ was born.) Anglicans and Protestants do not believe this; she is Blessed, but not Immaculate (latin for "without stain").

All agree she was a Virgin who conceived Christ through the intervention of the Holy Ghost. She remained a Virgin through the Birth, but later did bear other children begot of Joseph.

The point being, one does not have to believe in the Immaculate Conception to be a Christian.
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