Airbus 380

February 22nd, 2015 at 2:15:01 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
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It seems Delta is two airlines then... one a fleet of Boeing rated pilots and one a fleet of Aerobus rated pilots. Similarly with spare parts, maintenance facilities. I always think this is dangerous as well as inefficient. Perhaps it just gives them a variable response to situations that they can fill with either plane. I just fear the inherent dangers.

I think the Interjet in Mexico has the right idea, to EARN customer loyalty with service, but the entire industry wants to use feeder flights, hubs and spokes, time slots and deceptive or even downright fraudulent loyalty "miles".
February 22nd, 2015 at 3:14:02 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
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Yes, because of their merger with Northwest, who flew mostly a320's. They also had 747's.

Delta was mostly, if not entirely, a Boeing fleet. I'm going off of memory here.

Northwest had MD11's and 757's also. Not sure if they had 767s. I think they had a330's instead.

Now that they merged, they have major fleets of both flavors.

Airtran is bringing the first non 737's to Southwest, though I hear they are selling the 717's to delta.

Northwest also had a very large number of dc-9's. noisy little things.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 22nd, 2015 at 3:48:33 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Dalex64
Yes, because of their merger with Northwest, who flew mostly a320's. They also had 747's.
Delta was mostly, if not entirely, a Boeing fleet. I'm going off of memory here.
Northwest had MD11's and 757's also. Not sure if they had 767s. I think they had a330's instead.


Your memory is correct. Delta was an all-Boeing operation, but they had gotten rid of 13 of their Boeing 747's to Kalitta Air to be used as cargo planes. They stored the others.

But Northwest gave them the following airframes in 2008.

57 Airbus A319
69 Airbus A320
32 Airbus A330
13 Boeing 747

But Delta looked like it was going to remain a Boeing fleet (at least as far as widebodies) and they acquired the last of their 18 Boeing 777 in March 2010. They ordered 18 Dreamliners in May-2005, but I don't know if they are obligated to eventually go through with this purchase. I think the answer is No.

They may be ordering the Airbus's now to replace the 747's and the oldest of the 767's, and possibly replace other 767's with Dreamliners in another five years.

An A350-900 advertises typical seating as 315 in a two class configuration, so we can presume that seating will a lot less in a 3 class configuration. So if they are replacing a 747 with 375 seats, what is Delta's strategy? Are they going to fly twice as many jets and try and improve market share, or are they going to give up on market share with the smaller jet?

When Emirates gets their full fleet of 140 A380's, that will be over 70,000 seats. That is far larger than any of the USA widebody fleets. But in addition Emirates is also the largest operator of the B777 in the world.

Of course before Emirates gets their full fleet of 140 jets, they will be ending the leases on the original ones. They seem loyal to the airframe, but the question is will Airbus spend the money on a next generation A380.
February 22nd, 2015 at 5:14:52 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
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Quote: Pacomartin
but the question is will Airbus spend the money on a next generation A380.
That is very easily answered.
No, too much slack in the market.
All buying decisions for Emirates are based upon:

How much will the Chief Sheik make using his buying power as leverage?
How much will the Chief Sheik make in the stock/options market by knowing his decision in advance?
How much will the Chief Sheik make in gaining shares in Boeing/Airbus?
February 22nd, 2015 at 6:36:40 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Fleastiff

All buying decisions for Emirates are based upon:
How much will the Chief Sheik


Tim Cook , the CEO of Emirates has offered Airbus an order of 100 A380neos (the hypothetical fuel efficient version of the jet with an upgraded engine). Steve Wilhelm of the Puget Sound Business Journal reports that third party is trying to persuade Sheik Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum (age 56) to go with the 747-8 instead.

The Sheik probably can use the executive A319 operated by Emirates air whenever he wants. This plane has only 19 seats.


The 747-8 is defacto the only choice for the next generation of aircraft for the US president, and three planes will be delivered this time (as opposed to two in 1990-92). So we wonder what the Sheik will get if emirates abandons the A380 and goes with the 747-8..


Older versions of the 747 is used in a few places around the world for presidential or royal flights outside of the USA


B747SP Yemen
B747-400 Bahrain
B747-400 Oman
B747-400 Saudi Arabia
B747-400 Morocco
B747-400 South Korea
B747-400 Japan
B747-437B India - exclusively for use of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh

The Airbus 340 (the long range airbus) of which only 377 were delivered from 1993-2012 is also used as government aircraft by a number of places.

A340-500 Algeria
A340-200 Brunei
A340-200 Egypt
A340-200 (two) France
A340-313X (two) Germany
A340-600 Jordan
A340-500 (two)Kuwait

Of course the first presidential Dreamliner goes to the President of Mexico later this year.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:57:21 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
Of course the first presidential Dreamliner goes to the President of Mexico later this year.


There are two things wrong with that picture:

1) the plane belongs to the presidency, not the president. That is, it will be used by at least the next two presidents regardless of party affiliation. and 2) I really doubt it will cost 750 million dollars; unless the price of for two or three planes.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:56:08 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
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I woudn't be surprised if it cost that much, if they give it similar electronic warfare equipment and missile protection that the US 747's operating as Air Force 1 have.

not to mention the escape pod.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 23rd, 2015 at 12:13:36 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
There are two things wrong with that picture:

1) the plane belongs to the presidency, not the president. That is, it will be used by at least the next two presidents regardless of party affiliation. and 2) I really doubt it will cost 750 million dollars; unless the price of for two or three planes.


1) In the US the presidential planes are always ordered for the next President before the election so you don't know who will win.
Eisenhower ordered the plane for Kennedy, and Reagan ordered for George Bush Sr. Barack Obama will order for 2018 delivery.

2) The Dreamliner for Presidency of Mexico is Line Number # 6 which was first flown October 2010. The FAA requires three airframes to be available for testing. Boeing also kept #4-#6, but made the decision years later to sell #6 to the Mexican Air Force. In theory it should have gone for a better price.

The public price for a smaller Dreamliner is $218.30 million. It is widely believed that airlines negotiate better prices than the public price.

It is presumed that the Mexican Air force would be buying a plane with special options for personal protection, and that the price would include a maintenance agreement and financing.

But even so the sum of $750m seems outrageously high. Other documents indicate over a billion dollars for the life of the plane. The Mexican government has not released any realistic breakdown of the different charges.

------------------------------

The VC-25A's that the POTUS uses can accommodate more than 70 passengers. They cost $650 for two. But their cost of maintenance since 1990 has been staggering. Who knows what they spent in upgrades for better communications and for security in intermediate years.

Boeing has been designated as the sole source contractor to provide three modified 747-8 passenger planes. Boeing’s aircraft is the only one manufactured in the U.S. “that when fully missionized meets the necessary critically important capabilities” that the president needs, the e-mail said.

The competition would be for systems such as the plane’s advanced electronics and communications. The Air Force has budgeted $1.6 billion for research through 2019 on the presidential aircraft replacement program.

That is $1.6 billion for just research! By the time the three planes are delivered in 2021 they could billions apiece.

Quote: Dalex64
not to mention the escape pod.

No escape pod!
February 23rd, 2015 at 1:54:29 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
1)The public price for a smaller Dreamliner is $218.30 million. It is widely believed that airlines negotiate better prices than the public price.

It is presumed that the Mexican Air force would be buying a plane with special options for personal protection, and that the price would include a maintenance agreement and financing.


Oh, I also assume there is some kickback percentage involved for someone, or more likely several someones. But the quoted price is still too high even for two planes.

Quote:
No escape pod!


For that kind of money, there should be a couple of private jets to use as spares ;)

How much are the national emergency airborne command posts worth? I think the acronym is NEACP (pronounced kneecap).
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:02:39 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
For that kind of money, there should be a couple of private jets to use as spares ;).

There has been considerable discussion of the price in forums and in the American media. It is widely called "the most expensive plane in the world".

Because it is a prototype that was 4.5 years old, it is said that Boeing sold the airframe for $139 million = 2 billion pesos. It was always understood special interior outfitting and security detailing for the plane, to be done by a private company in the U.S. before delivery would add some cost (initially expected to cost 1.5 billion pesos).

San Diego tribune reported 7.5 billion pesos. The price supposedly jumped since the financing was extended (but the amount seems incredible).