Airbus 380

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April 26th, 2018 at 7:03:40 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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ANA has released livery designs for their A380 fleet. They're so cute!

Inside, there will be 4 classes: first, business, premium economy and economy. Upper deck is the premium classes, main deck is all-economy (smart, but it feels tainted). All cabins have a bar space, whatever that is. The back of economy is a couch section, each couch made up of four seats. Tickets here will cost more, but you'll be able to stretch out and sleep (reports are lacking in detail). Finally, there is a "multi-purpose room" at the back of the main deck. I did not get a clear sense of what that is.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 26th, 2018 at 7:20:37 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
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You have to buy four seats to use it as a couch??
Bar area means people strolling and sitting near a bar?

Premium fares should give real value, not hype.
April 26th, 2018 at 8:48:09 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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I forgot to say ANA plans to fly their A380s exclusively between Tokyo and Hawaii.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 26th, 2018 at 1:39:25 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
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Quote: Nareed
I forgot to say ANA plans to fly their A380s exclusively between Tokyo and Hawaii.


The four class configuration includes 383 economy class seats on the main deck, says ANA. The upper deck will have 137 seats with eight in first class, 56 in business, and 73 in premium economy.

QATAR AIRWAYS configuration
405 economy main deck
8 83"/23" upper deck first class (1-2-1) 2 rows
48 80"/22" upper deck business class (1-2-1) 12 rows
56 32"/18.5" upper deck economy class (2-4-2) 7 rows

Obviously what QATAR airways calls economy, ANA calls "economy plus". ANA is a little stingier than QATAR on the premium seating, and a little more generous on the main deck by eliminating two rows.

In comparison with the airlines that go with a single class on the main deck ANA is being fairly generous at 383 seats
377 Thai Airways International
405 Qatar Airways
417 Etihad Airways
399 Emirates
427 Emirates *
437 Emirates **

I think the BIG3 Middle East airlines go for the maximum galley ship configuration. Cram as many as possible in the bottom deck and reserve the entire upper deck for premium seating.
April 26th, 2018 at 1:50:30 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
I think the BIG3 Middle East airlines go for the maximum galley ship configuration. Cram as many as possible in the bottom deck and reserve the entire upper deck for premium seating.


Yeah, that's what I meant that concentrating economy in the lower deck has semantic implications. Lower decks, or below decks, are where cargo gets stored on ships, or where the third class and lower accommodations are in passenger liners.

I didn't post this because I don't recall for sure, but I think ANA plans a 34" pitch in economy. That should make the 3-4-3 seating a bit easier to bear.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 26th, 2018 at 3:08:33 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
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Quote: Nareed
Yeah, that's what I meant that concentrating economy in the lower deck has semantic implications. Lower decks, or below decks, are where cargo gets stored on ships, or where the third class and lower accommodations are in passenger liners.

I didn't post this because I don't recall for sure, but I think ANA plans a 34" pitch in economy. That should make the 3-4-3 seating a bit easier to bear.


Lufthansa has 388 seats on main cabin divided into
38"/18.2" 52 economy premium (2-4-2)
31"/17" 336 economy (3-4-3)

So if ANA has only 383 economy seats, then the pitch must be pretty good. Emirates has 48 rows in the main cabin, But I doubt you can divide 383 into more than 40 rows.

So I think you are correct about 34".

But this flight distance is not very long compared to many of the A380 routes, and Honolulu is mostly a vacation destinations. You really don't need the lie flat business class.
April 26th, 2018 at 3:24:26 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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Quote: Pacomartin
So I think you are correct about 34".


I think so, too. Even if that's economy plus/comfort in most airlines these days.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 26th, 2018 at 3:44:26 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
When Skymark went bankrupt in 2015 all A380 orders from Skymark were rescinded as well, although All Nippon Airways will take 3 of the 5 original orders. Emirates will take up the 2 remaining already built Skymark A380s that were in long term storage.

So ANA took up this order of three A380 solely to get Airbus backing on takeover of Skymark. I think ANA would be happy if this Honolulu service breaks even, as the profit is coming from the takeover and the extra slots at Haneda.

I would be shocked if ANA orders another A380.
April 26th, 2018 at 3:57:24 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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Quote: Pacomartin
I would be shocked if ANA orders another A380.


in principle, yes.

But they are not going to try to lose money on these planes. So let's see how it goes.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 26th, 2018 at 4:52:21 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
But they are not going to try to lose money on these planes. So let's see how it goes.


I am not suggesting that they would try and lose money. ANA is designing this configuration with only one route in mind for the life of the plane.

Tokyo to Honolulu is 7.5 hours going and 8.5 hours returning. All Nippon Airways flies 12 destinations further from Tokyo than Honolulu (including IAD, JFK and MEX and BRU and DUS in Europe). But if ANA is never planning to use the A380 on those long routes, they can probably configure business class with 48"-55" pitch, and only have 80"+ for first class.

If each plane does one round trip per day, that is a reasonable rate of use, but not the extreme utility that some airlines are putting their planes through.

The objective of ANA was to get hold of Skymark and take over those slots at Haneda. I'm sure that Emirates has an entire marketing department to keep those 9000 luxury seats on the upper decks of their A380 fleet full of customers who are paying top dollar and not just using upgrade miles.

Chasing whales can be a difficult business. I remember when Hard Rock Casino in Vegas decided they could use their trendy image and upgrade to catch the "little Asian whales" who were too young and cool to stay at the Wynn or Sands. They put in new suites, renovated the casino, put in new concert halls and sure enough casino revenue went up. However, expenses went up by more than the increase in casino revenue, and the casino started losing money.

The reality is ANA is operating the world's smallest fleet of A380s
6 : MALAYSIA AIRLINES (Kuala Lumpur | London |Hong Kong )
6 : THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (Bangkok | Hong Kong | London | Paris |Tokyo)
6 : ASIANA AIRLINES (Seoul | Los Angeles | New York | Frankfurt )
5 : CHINA SOUTHERN AIRLINES COMPANY ( Guangzhou | Beijing | Los Angeles | Sydney )
3 : ANA | All Nippon Airlines (Tokyo |Honolulu)

There are three A380 routes from Tokyo
Bangkok to Tokyo: Thai Airways 5 h 40 min
Dubai to Tokyo: Emirates 9 h 50 min
Tokyo to LAX : Singapore Airlines as a 5th freedom flight

ANA could have used their A380s to compete on the LAX or even the JFK route. Instead they opted for the much less competitive Tokyo Honolulu route.
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