Controlled Flight Into Terrain. UPS1354

September 13th, 2014 at 6:36:50 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
I just read the CVR transcript for UPS 1354.

Didn't catch what they had done wrong at all.

Am I getting senile or was it very subtle?
Heck they were talking about exhaustion but they caught call sign problems.
They caught SOME localizer and properly confirmed it by morse signal.
So had they been sent wrong or did they expect one clearance and just mentally lock on to it?


UPS 1354 NTSB Investigation - CVR
The CVR transcript was released. Cockpit conversation starts on page 12.

Transcript.
September 13th, 2014 at 9:59:30 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Your link comes up "not found", so I'm not sure where you saw the transcript. I just looked thru a 10 page menu, once I found the accident via Google

DCA13MA133

is the reference number to get the search engine to work

But could not find a CVR transcript among the documents. Will keep looking at it.

Edit: found this:

http://dms.ntsb.gov/public%2F55000-55499%2F55307%2F550788.pdf
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
September 13th, 2014 at 10:43:58 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
You might find this analysis, from a couple weeks after the crash, to be very worth the read.

http://dailyduck.blogspot.com/2013/08/kicking-more-tin-ups-1354.html
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
September 13th, 2014 at 11:33:59 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Ok, so I looked at the hearing from this week, and read the transcripts. There was a failure on both crew's part to respect the Decision Altitude (DA) which was 1200 feet; they dove below it without respecting or remarking, even though they had set the altitude bug to remind them how low they could go (which was roughly 500 ft above the ground) before initiating a go-around. It was the Captain's responsibility to level off the airplane at that altitude, and the co-pilot's to advise when they were approaching it, and especially when they blew through it, and she didn't do that either.

The Captain also pulled a change-up without saying anything to the FO, by hand-flying the vertical rate rather than allowing the FMS to do it, and he increased the descent rate to a ridiculous 1500fpm, even though they intercepted the localizer below the glidepath (as they should), which should have, on intercept, allowed them to descend at about 350fpm to the DA once they locked on and crossed the final approach fix. There was not any reason, looking at the flight profiles, for him to dump it like that. A fatal error in judgment.

The approach, if flown properly, should have led them to a missed approach, because a low layer had moved in about 350'AGL, which if they had stopped at their lowest allowed altitude, would have kept them from seeing the runway (Required for them to continue for a landing on that approach). The irony is, that had they done that, the ILS runway opened in time where they could have shot their preferred, precision approach to 6/24 and let the FMS do the work. The variable ceiling information was available, but was incorrectly not reported to them by UPS dispatch or the tower/approach, either via ATIS (recording) or when they checked on the frequency. However, the primary issue has to be that they flew the approach badly and were behind the airplane, and did not recognize either problem.
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
September 13th, 2014 at 5:00:23 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Okay, thanks.

All pilots usually complain ATC keeps them high and forces a massive dive. Here, he did it to himself.

Here it seems the entire approach was actually not legally available to them at night and no one knew it.

Not much use setting minimums if you are going to bust them and bust them in silence.

They get terrain warnings but they don't seem to climb, they even start snapping tree limbs but continue the descent.

Strange.