Right and Wrong

October 3rd, 2014 at 6:21:06 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
I'm not quite sure where you are going with all of this, but it sounds like you are laying the case for believing there is a more technologically advanced species than us without having any evidence other than an educated guess and good logic.


I'm trying to show that ranking humanity on a scale of technological advance when we don't even know whether any other species exists to compare us with is ridiculous. And yet there's more evidence for that than for any kind of deity.
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October 3rd, 2014 at 6:37:50 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
What about the fact that you and I and the world exist as evidence of a creator?


Which one? Plato's demiurge? The Egyptian's Hidden Gods? Osiris and Isis? The Babylonian's deities? The Mayan's Lords of Xibalba? The Centauri's Great Maker?

Quote:
What about billions of people testifying to their own personal experiences of God? All hearsay as well?


Yes. if someone had a recording of their experience with a god, then it wouldn't be hearsay. Besides, don't you think the ancients made similar claims about Athena, Melkart, Tlaloc, Thor, and Ahura Mazda to name a few?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:14:48 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed
I'm trying to show that ranking humanity on a scale of technological advance when we don't even know whether any other species exists to compare us with is ridiculous. And yet there's more evidence for that than for any kind of deity.


What is this evidence of which you speak?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:20:16 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed
Which one? Plato's demiurge? The Egyptian's Hidden Gods? Osiris and Isis? The Babylonian's deities? The Mayan's Lords of Xibalba? The Centauri's Great Maker?


Any of them, they all speak to the obvious thought that there is a creator. We can have a different discussion as to who this creator is at another time.



Quote: Nareed
Yes. if someone had a recording of their experience with a god, then it wouldn't be hearsay. Besides, don't you think the ancients made similar claims about Athena, Melkart, Tlaloc, Thor, and Ahura Mazda to name a few?


Eyewitness accounts or expert testimony don't hold up in court? And yes the ancients and the entire history of humankind have had experience with the divine that is why it is so silly to try and discount, ignore, or ridicule it.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:00:40 AM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: FrGamble
Let's not go into the Original Sin debate again here, re-read the posts over in that thread and again you will see that your position is the one that has no basis in reality.


Oh dearie me, Father. Original Sin is an axiom of faith of the Catholic Church. You beg the question by suggesting it's something that has no basis in reality, when quite clearly you can live your life fine without accepting that there is such a thing as original sin. Many other religions don't use it as an article of faith. There's no requirement for it to exist for reality to continue.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:23:44 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
Any of them, they all speak to the obvious thought that there is a creator. We can have a different discussion as to who this creator is at another time.


Ok. But if Ahura Mazda or one of the Titans is the creator, they're going to be ticked off at all you Christians for not keeping up offerings at the Fire Temples, or having never sacrificed as much as a goat to Ouranos or even Athena.

Quote:
Eyewitness accounts or expert testimony don't hold up in court?


Two different things.

Eyewitness testimony does not hold up when the claims made by the witnesses are out of the ordinary. It's one thing to see a person running out of a bank with a large bag, and quite another to say you could see how many singles, fives, twenties and hundreds were inside the bag. Would you believe the latter claim?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:27:10 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
It sounds like you can't wrap your mind around the idea that the universe had a beginning and was created. You think you see stuff around us as eternally existing, but in the face of the science of the big bang, .


The BB was just a continuation of something
that's been here forever and always will be.
If you get into meditation, you can sense the
truth of this.

Look at when someone dies. Oops, there's an
ending, right? Nope. Their soul goes somewhere
else and the body is still right there, about to
continue on into something else. Where's the
start and where's the end. It's all in your mind.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:29:22 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: TheCesspit
There's no requirement for it to exist for reality to continue.


It's a fact that cultures are better off if
they never have to hear such intellectual
nonsense presented to them as a fact.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:13:55 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
What is this evidence of which you speak?


We know for certain there is at least one technologically advanced species. If you doubt it, kindly step away from the computer (or tablet or phone) ;)
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 3rd, 2014 at 7:44:33 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: TheCesspit
Oh dearie me, Father. Original Sin is an axiom of faith of the Catholic Church. You beg the question by suggesting it's something that has no basis in reality, when quite clearly you can live your life fine without accepting that there is such a thing as original sin. Many other religions don't use it as an article of faith. There's no requirement for it to exist for reality to continue.


Actually I believe it is of such fundamental importance that we all either implicitly or explicitly believe it. To understand our humanity and to think about what it means to be human is to at least obliquely reflect upon original sin. Why do I desire more in my life? Why do I get upset at myself when I do wrong or shame when I cannot even live up to my own standards? Why do we strive to help others and celebrate those who sacrifice for the common good? You might answer these questions without the same theological terms I use, but the concepts are the same. We know there is something more to us than meets the eye. We are not ultimately fulfilled with material things. We recognize an inherent weakness in ourselves (physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually) and beat against it as if it is not truly us. To wrestle with this human dilemma is indeed a requirement to exist and for reality to continue as we know it.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (