Right and Wrong

Quote: FrGamble

Let me be so bold as to say not only what I believe, but what you don't believe.

Hubris in a Catholic priest... Interesting.

Quote: TheCesspit

Why not? Why can't conciousness be an accident, and human life by the end result of a big bang? Just because it doesn't -feel- right to you isn't a good enough answer for this bag of fertilizer.

On the other hand why can't an amazing thing like conciousness be a unique gift given for a purpose? Why do you feel right about being a bag of fertilizer and not feel right about being a wonderfully created human being?

Quote: FrGamble

On the other hand why can't an amazing thing like conciousness be a unique gift given for a purpose? ?

You're doing it again, you decide something is
a gift, so that implies a giver. That's the opposite
of how scientific investigation works. You don't
make an assumption and then act like the
assumption is a fact. That's what the old Church
used to do. Make decrees based on wishful
thinking and then proclaim them as facts.

My wife has a niece who absolutely believes
we never landed on the moon. She'll scream
it in your face if pushed. She has not one fact
to back up her claim. The opposition has a
mountain of facts, not the least of which is
eye witnesses who were there. You can get
people to believe anything if they're gullible
enough.

Quote: FrGamble

On the other hand why can't an amazing thing like conciousness be a unique gift given for a purpose? Why do you feel right about being a bag of fertilizer and not feel right about being a wonderfully created human being?

It could be, sure. It could be that I am the dream in the minds eye of an AI.

But like my countryman, William of Ockham said (smart monk), "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate".

There is no requirement for God, except for him to be invented by those looking for an easy answer. 'God did it' is not an answer, but salve.

EDIT : Of course, you'll now tell me that God is an easy simple answer and random chance is far too complicated and difficult to really have happened. So be it.

Yeah, comparative religion courses can be toxic to their purpose...I took one at my Jesuit university as a sophomore. By the end, I was agnostic and nearly Atheist. lol...haven't really recovered, though there are Christian tenets I accept still, as reasonable ethical guidelines.

Quote: FrGamble

Why do you feel right about being a bag of fertilizer and not feel right about being a wonderfully created human being?

Lol. I like this, but unfortunately, it's too long to put on bumper stickers and sell to the local Christian bookstore.

Quote: FrGamble

Why do you feel right about being a bag of fertilizer and not feel right about being a wonderfully created human being?

What's so wonderful about being human? Ever
visited a mental institution? Or a place that
treats kids with hideous birth defects? Or consider
how many people worldwide take their own
lives every year to escape the 'wonderfulness'
of being human?

You sound like a used car salesman, padre. Put
the best spin on everything and hope to reel in
some suckers..

Quote: Evenbob

What's so wonderful about being human? Ever
visited a mental institution? Or a place that
treats kids with hideous birth defects? Or consider
how many people worldwide take their own
lives every year to escape the 'wonderfulness'
of being human?

You sound like a used car salesman, padre. Put
the best spin on everything and hope to reel in
some suckers..

Sometimes when people jokingly ask me to change the weather I reply, "Sorry, I'm in sales not management".

I do visit mental institutions quite regularly and I've been to many places that treat kids with awful birth defects. I don't know why you think these places make being human a bad thing. I am often inspired by the service provided by the staff, physicians, nurses, counselors, and volunteers. I often see amazing strength in the people who face horrible disabilities and challenges both physical and mental. What I think causes the epidemic of suicide (and it is a true epidemic that we are not talking enough about!) is the pessimistic attitude of those who think because a car has a little rust or isn't perfect and brand new, it is worthless. I love those who think they are used cars and have no value because God, like Face, car refurbish and have them racing again through life with their engines humming.

Quote: TheCesspit

It could be, sure. It could be that I am the dream in the minds eye of an AI.

But like my countryman, William of Ockham said (smart monk), "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate".

There is no requirement for God, except for him to be invented by those looking for an easy answer. 'God did it' is not an answer, but salve.

EDIT : Of course, you'll now tell me that God is an easy simple answer and random chance is far too complicated and difficult to really have happened. So be it.

Actually, I don't think "God did it" is an easy answer nor is it meant to be the end to the questioning. To attribute things to random chance is not complicated and it doesn't lead us to further study. If things are just because of some cosmic roll of the dice than to study it is like believing in dice setting. If God did it, then there is meaning and order to our universe (which of course we observe all around us) and this inspires us to look deeply and desire to figure it out. What does nature have to teach us about our world, our universe, and ourselves? These questions are not answered by random chance. Life is an accident is not salve and not smart either. It is an empty and worthless answer that stops investigation in its tracks. The answer 'God did it' leads to other questions like "how?", "when?" and the all important question, "why?"

Quote: FrGamble

To attribute things to random chance is not complicated and it doesn't lead us to further study.

Hey, the Wiz studies random chance all the time and how it figures into different games.