Pope Francis

Quote: FrGamble

Come on Bob, .

This is a joke, right? You're being purposely obtuse.

"Named the Dark Ages because few literary documents survive from those centuries. The main reason why there are few surviving literary documents of the era is because of lack of a suitable writing medium."

"They are often called the Dark Ages because, compared with other eras, historians don't know as much about this time. In some ways, this period of time has been lost to history. Many important records from this time have not survived."

"It was called the Dark Ages not because that period was more brutal or “darker” than other periods, but simply because not much was known about it. There were very few surviving records."

And right here in Wiki:

The term employs traditional light-versus-darkness imagery to contrast the era's "darkness" (lack of records) with earlier and later periods of "light" (abundance of records). It can't be said any clearer than that.

"When the term "Dark Ages" is used by historians today, it is intended to be neutral, namely to express the idea that the events of the period often seem "dark" to us, due to the lack of historical records compared with later times."

The term has nothing to do with actual conditions
at the time, it's the lack of written history that made
it 'dark'. It's no longer hidden, so it's no longer dark.

You know what, I'm just going to back away slowly. I can only point to your own links, the last link you posted was really very good and never once mentioned what you think is the only reason this period was called the dark ages. Now you've gone back to Wikipedia with a few very selected quotes. If you can't read these articles on your own and come with a more complete and complex truth I'm legit worried about you.

Quote: FrGamble

I can only point to your own links,

Then you can see why they were
originally called dark. It's not because
of what happened in them, it's
because they had no information about
what happened. The term 'dark'
gradually came to mean something
other than originally intended, that's
why modern scholars no longer use
it. We now know those times were
not dark at all, they were full of
art and innovation and progress,
some of which we still feel today.

Why you can't see that is a mystery.

Quote: Evenbob

Then you can see why they were
originally called dark. It's not because
of what happened in them, it's
because they had no information about
what happened. The term 'dark'
gradually came to mean something
other than originally intended, that's
why modern scholars no longer use
it. We now know those times were
not dark at all, they were full of
art and innovation and progress,
some of which we still feel today.

Why you can't see that is a mystery.

No where in the most recent link you provided does it even mention the lack of information about that period leads to the term "dark". It does talk about the era in question being Catholic or unenlightened so people called it dark to be negative towards that time period. The movement away from using this negative term is because we know that this time did have art, innovation, and progress. It isn't that we somehow unearthed new documents or records that demonstrate this. Modern scholars have been able to look past the negative connotation that has stuck on this era for so long and dispelled the myths surrounding them. It is kind of like the myths you hold about the Inquisitions and the burning of witches. If you really objectively looked at these periods of history you would see that what you have been led to believe because of very negative myths surrounding them is not the whole picture.

So just so we are clear the term, "Dark Ages" is an unfair negative adjective used to describe the time period in question because it was before the Enlightenment and to many early historians was full of superstition, cruelty, and poverty. Some historians do also point to there being less records than we would think, but none of them would ever say this was the only reason the era is called "dark". The modern move to not call this period dark is because the more we look at that era we see there is plenty of art, innovation, and progress. We don't stop calling this time "dark" simply because we know more about it now or we discovered some records.

Just how 'dark' is the age when London was a tiny village and Arabia had miles of public lighting?

Just how 'dark' was the continent of Africa because white European males knew so little of it.
When Victoria Falls were discovered did the Dark Continent become lighter?
If so, you may have some trouble as at the time Englishmen discovered Victoria Falls the natives had known they were there for hundreds of years.

Quote: FrGamble

We don't stop calling this time "dark" simply because we know more about it now or we discovered some records.

But they did stop, modern historians
no longer call it dark. Flea makes a
good point. Africa was called the
Dark Continent for hundreds of years
because little was known about it's
interior. The Sahara Desert was an
almost impenetrable barrier, preventing
land travel and exploration south.
So until the middle of the 19th century,
it was 'dark', just like the early Middle
Ages were dark, because of a lack of
information.

I remember way back in the early 60's
in HS, my ancient history teacher even
then was offended at calling them the
Dark ages. She said all the advancements
we now know they made make them
eligible for more respect.

Okay I give up. You think Africa was called the "dark Continent" because we didn't know much about it?

Okay Bob here is where we can come to agreement: The so called Dark Ages were called that because the mistaken and limited information we had or were told about that time gave the impression that it was a period without much art, innovation, or progress.

There were very few written histories of Africa at the time too.... since it was all oral languages.

Anyway, I posted about beer and Benjamin Franklin in the Belief in God thread when you two were going far too many rounds so maybe it time for another such post in this thread.

Quote: FrGamble

Okay I give up. You think Africa was called the "dark Continent" because we didn't know much about it?

Why wouldn't I think that, it's what
I was taught is the way it was. Why
do you automatically assume that
everything you're ignorant of is a
lie, or the person is making it up.


“Africa was considered mysterious, especially to Europeans and people of European descent, chiefly because its interior was largely unknown to them. Henry M. Stanley was probably the first to use the term in Through the Dark Continent.
The American Heritage Dictionary states: “Refers to the fact that little was known in the West about the interior of the continent.”