Evolution and the Pope

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October 30th, 2014 at 12:14:37 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Can you scientifically prove love is an emotion and that an emotion is not a thing?


How would you prove there is love. We have
certain reactions to things and we call it love,
or hate, or jealousy. But one person's way
of feeling love can be totally different than
another persons. Which one is love. If they
are all love, then love doesn't really exist.

And then there's tough love, and romantic
love, and love for a pet, and for your country
and for your car. Lets not forget god's love,
which has umpteen different meanings to
people. We take all this and stick the love
label on it. Meaningless word..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 30th, 2014 at 12:26:20 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: FrGamble
Science is rendered silent by God or anything that is spiritual or metaphysical. This is not because science has no use for God or philosophy or morality, but rather because it is in awe of these higher sciences.


Science is in awe of its self? Higher sciences?
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
October 30th, 2014 at 12:33:04 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Science is rendered silent by God or anything that is spiritual or metaphysical. This is not because science has no use for God or philosophy or morality, but rather because it is in awe of these higher sciences.


Yes, this is the reason really smart people
like Einstein and Asimov were atheists.
They were so much in awe of religion
they just couldn't handle it. They wanted
to hang out more with the under 100 IQ
crowd to try and figure it out, but their
'awe' prevented them.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 30th, 2014 at 1:11:45 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
First of all Evenbob, I continue to be amazed at how long you will hold unto thoughts or ideas that lead you to the ridiculous. Because many people have different conceptions about what love is you claim it is a meaningless concept? You throw it on the trash heap of other concepts like God, democracy, and justice. I guess as they say one man's garbage is another man's treasure.


Nareed, I think the only philosophies and moral theories that have no use for God are the ones that have caused the greatest problems and most horrible human tragedies in history. God as you may define him/her/it is the source of wisdom, which philosophy loves and the source of right or wrong that morality explores. When we think we ourselves are the source of wisdom or morality it leads to tyranny, prejudice, and evil.

How can the effects of practicing something like religion be real and can be studied, but the religion itself not be real or studied? Also if it can be shown that the results of believing in God, specifically Christianity are beneficial then why does that not prove anything about the existence of God?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 30th, 2014 at 1:21:24 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Because many people have different conceptions about what love is you claim it is a meaningless concept? You throw it on the trash heap


There is no other choice. When love can
mean just about anything, which it does,
the word has no meaning. I love to drive,
I love my wife, I love my dog, I use tough
love on my teen, god loves us, I love my
friend, it all has different meanings that
have to be explained. Love is a meaningless
catchall word.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 30th, 2014 at 2:41:36 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
Nareed, I think the only philosophies and moral theories that have no use for God are the ones that have caused the greatest problems and most horrible human tragedies in history.


I'm this close to invoking Goodwin's Law...

Seriously, a lot, and I mean the vast majority, of philosophers from Thales on down, made no use of god in their philosophies. Surely you won't condemn Epicureanism, Stoicism, the philosophies of Aristotle, Socrates, Diogenes, Seneca, Galen, Hippocrates, Hipparchus, Thales, Pythagoras and a very long etcetera as having caused any kind of human tragedy.

Quote:
How can the effects of practicing something like religion be real and can be studied, but the religion itself not be real or studied?


Oh, the religion is real. That is, the beliefs are believed, largely, and the ritual are practiced. That can be studied, too.

Quote:
Also if it can be shown that the results of believing in God, specifically Christianity are beneficial then why does that not prove anything about the existence of God?


I should go laconic and only answer "If!" But I won't.

I refer you to the 30 Years War. Aside from that, consider all the strife just within the Roman Empire over the definition of the role of Jesus in the trinity. And all that was merely within Christianity.

But the main point is this: no practice, ritual, activity or belief is ever universally anything to all people. Surely if belief in god were beneficial, then it should be so to all believers, not just to a portion of them. Next you'd have to quantify how beneficial it is. All this assuming it's beneficial at all. I've yet to see any evidence saying it is.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 30th, 2014 at 6:38:56 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed
I'm this close to invoking Goodwin's Law...

Seriously, a lot, and I mean the vast majority, of philosophers from Thales on down, made no use of god in their philosophies. Surely you won't condemn Epicureanism, Stoicism, the philosophies of Aristotle, Socrates, Diogenes, Seneca, Galen, Hippocrates, Hipparchus, Thales, Pythagoras and a very long etcetera as having caused any kind of human tragedy.


Literally every single one of the philosophers you mentioned believed in God as a foundation for life as well as their philosophy.


Quote: Nareed

But the main point is this: no practice, ritual, activity or belief is ever universally anything to all people. Surely if belief in god were beneficial, then it should be so to all believers, not just to a portion of them. Next you'd have to quantify how beneficial it is. All this assuming it's beneficial at all. I've yet to see any evidence saying it is.


How can you rightfully claim that nothing is universally anything to all people and in the next breath criticize belief in God for not being universally good for everyone? Vegetables are beneficial, but there are a few people in the world because of sickness or disease that actually are not benefitted by them. This in no way makes vegetables worse for healthy people. As far as quantifying the benefit of belief in God how can we count the ways. Belief in God encourages science and wonder in our world and universe, it grounds our morality in something bigger than ourselves, it gives us hope, helps us find purpose, teaches us to love, sees humanity as united, finds strength and inspiration to be better and overcome challenges, etc., etc., etc...
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 30th, 2014 at 6:48:25 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
There is no other choice. When love can
mean just about anything, which it does,
the word has no meaning. I love to drive,
I love my wife, I love my dog, I use tough
love on my teen, god loves us, I love my
friend, it all has different meanings that
have to be explained. Love is a meaningless
catchall word.


Come on man, think it through. Is there nothing in this litany of things you love that can be a common thread? Is there no characteristic these different types of love share? Dude there are lots of different types of cupcakes but that doesn't mean a cupcake is meaningless. What is the essence of a cupcake or what is the essence of love - start another thread to explore this.

However, on this thread you need to come to grips with the fact that things like democracy and religion, are concepts or ideas that are real and that science cannot prove. To remain locked into a mentality that only deals with observable science is to render your voice mute on discussions of philosophy, theology, morality and other very real and powerful concepts.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 30th, 2014 at 6:56:08 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
How can you rightfully claim that nothing is universally anything to all people and in the next breath criticize belief in God for not being universally good for everyone?


You made a pretty good case for it yourself:


Quote:
Vegetables are beneficial, but there are a few people in the world because of sickness or disease that actually are not benefitted by them.


Right. Some people have allergies, others lack certain proteins, others cannot process some nutrients, etc. That is the nature of biological systems: they're messy. But God, in your conception, is perfect, all-knowing, all-powerful and most important benevolent. Why would he then choose to have an adverse effect on anyone who accept his terms?

I'm willing to wager people who practice religion regularly benefit, or don't, in the same way and perhaps at the same rate as people who attend social activities, such as book clubs, sewing circles, wine-tastings, etc. I'd also wager it happens for the same reason.

Quote:
Belief in God encourages science and wonder in our world and universe, it grounds our morality in something bigger than ourselves, it gives us hope, helps us find purpose, teaches us to love, sees humanity as united, finds strength and inspiration to be better and overcome challenges, etc., etc., etc...


I must have drawn a defective deity, because it was only when I moved away from such belief that I found science, wonder, morality, hope, etc.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 30th, 2014 at 7:14:26 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed


Right. Some people have allergies, others lack certain proteins, others cannot process some nutrients, etc. That is the nature of biological systems: they're messy. But God, in your conception, is perfect, all-knowing, all-powerful and most important benevolent. Why would he then choose to have an adverse effect on anyone who accept his terms?


I must have drawn a defective deity, because it was only when I moved away from such belief that I found science, wonder, morality, hope, etc.


It is not just biological systems that are messy, but so are our emotional and mental systems. There are some people who have been deeply hurt by those who purport to believe in God or who have experienced such negative association with God at the hands of his so called followers that through no fault of their own that they have become allergic, if you will, to God. I wouldn't put the blame on God, just like I wouldn't blame vegetables, it is often some other environmental, emotional, or mental messiness out of our control that make belief in God impossible or even in some cases harmful for the person.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
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