Evolution and the Pope

Quote: FrGamble

Is there no characteristic these different types of love share?

Nope. If I said I loved you, I would have
to explain what I meant. Because I have
to do that, the word has no real meaning.

I could love you like a father loves a son.
Or if I was Gay, it could be romantic love.
Or brotherly love, if we agreed on a lot
of things. Or it could mean 'love ya', we
like to pal around together. It has so many
meanings and connotations it's almost
a worthless word in any context.

I love you too, Evenbob!

Quote: FrGamble

It is not just biological systems that are messy, but so are our emotional and mental systems.

Nothing comes even close to the messiness of biology.

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There are some people who have been deeply hurt by those who purport to believe in God or who have experienced such negative association with God at the hands of his so called followers that through no fault of their own that they have become allergic, if you will, to God.

Interesting hypothesis.

But, and this is the essential question to ask, what benefit do these unnamed so-called followers of God derive from their "false" teachings and/or practices?

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I wouldn't put the blame on God, just like I wouldn't blame vegetables,

I would. A harvested vegetable is inanimate, dead in fact. It cannot do anything. The deity shouldn't be. God should be able to come across and deliver all his full benefits anyway, though it may take time.

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[..]it is often some other environmental, emotional, or mental messiness out of our control that make belief in God impossible or even in some cases harmful for the person.

Do you claim atheism is a psychological disorder?

Quote: Nareed

Nothing comes even close to the messiness of biology.

Nothing comes close to the pain and confusion of our mental or emotional problems.

Quote: ]
Interesting hypothesis.

But, and this is the essential question to ask, what benefit do these unnamed so-called followers of God derive from their "false" teachings and/or practices?[/q

Usually when someone abuses religion it is to exert power or control over someone, this fulfills a very strong temptation in us. That is why I follow a poor carpenter who as God came to serve and not be served.

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I would. A harvested vegetable is inanimate, dead in fact. It cannot do anything. The deity shouldn't be. God should be able to come across and deliver all his full benefits anyway, though it may take time.[/q

I feel your desire for God to snap his fingers and make everything better and perfect. Why doesn't God do this is obviously a big question. I think it has something to do with respecting free will, showing the power of true love and forgiveness, establishing a longing hope for something more, etc.

Quote: ][..

it is often some other environmental, emotional, or mental messiness out of our control that make belief in God impossible or even in some cases harmful for the person.

Do you claim atheism is a psychological disorder?

Let's see how do I answer this. First of all we know that lots of people suffer from psychological disorders that are minor and live good healthy lives. I do think that some atheists have a mental and/or emotional block to believing in God.

“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (

Quote: FrGamble

Usually when someone abuses religion it is to exert power or control over someone,

Plain, non-abusive practice of religion is enough for that. The fact that today we call it "abusive" says a lot about us and how we've relegated religion to the background. But throughout history, Christianity has been used to dominate entire populations. Pagan religions usually didn't concern themselves with that. Islam does this even more thoroughly than Christianity. I've no doubt Judaism would serve as well, but as yet it has not attached itself to a powerful political unit.

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That is why I follow a poor carpenter who as God came to serve and not be served.

That is so ironic in light of the wars between one set of Christians against another over a theological matter.

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I feel your desire for God to snap his fingers and make everything better and perfect. Why doesn't God do this is obviously a big question. I think it has something to do with respecting free will, showing the power of true love and forgiveness, establishing a longing hope for something more, etc.

I think it's because there is no God, naturally.

If there was one, and that's a big assumption, one would have to twist one's brain into a pretzel in order to have it both ways. Christians have a head start with the trinity, another flagrant violation of an early scientific and philosophical principle: Aristotle's Law of Identity.

from time to time I toy with the idea of a very advanced, very smart being who finds herself stuck on Earth accidentally. The mental twist I need to make not to have her exchange her advanced knowledge and technology for help in returning home is so great, that I can't really carry it through. Multiply that by omnipotence and omniscience, and you get a dim sense of what I mean.

At one time I hit upon an idea involving a kind of deity. I was able to make her a rather passive actor in the world by 1) making her largely powerless in the actual real world and 2) rather heartlessly making her value the afterlife in her dimension more than life in ours. The rest of the story is so good that I can gloss over the two obstacles.

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Let's see how do I answer this. First of all we know that lots of people suffer from psychological disorders that are minor and live good healthy lives. I do think that some atheists have a mental and/or emotional block to believing in God.

You've no idea how much I'd like to see that notion tested.

Quote: FrGamble

. I do think that some atheists have a mental and/or emotional block to believing in God.

It's called common sense, it's not a mental
block. Walking around all day believing in
something you can't see, hear, or feel and
can't be proved, seems like a waste of time
to an atheist. I have thought for a long time
that religion is like a big mental ward for a
lot of people. They never have to think
about anything complicated or troubling,
their religion has done it for them. They're
intellectually lazy.

"mental and/or emotional block to believing in God"

Wow.
Its so so simple.
I dont believe in the Resurrection or the Immaculate conception.
Other then that, huge fan of the Jesus philosphy regarding kindness. Reall good stuff. Love these type of teachings.
Jesus, one of the great philosphers of all time. I'm a big fan.
I'm also an athiest, regardless, alot of good stuff Jesus taught :-)

Could any of you Godless heathens tell me whether or not you put your hand near your heart and recite the "pledge of allegiance", I wanna get baseline here.

I try to witness at least one miracle a day.

Quote: petroglyph

I try to witness at least one miracle a day.

A miracle is a judgement call, not a fact.
It's another nonsense word. My dog just
took a dump, I call that a miracle. You can't
convince me it's not because a miracle is
whatever you want it to be.

Quote: Evenbob

A miracle is a judgement call, not a fact.
It's another nonsense word. My dog just
took a dump, I call that a miracle. You can't
convince me it's not because a miracle is
whatever you want it to be.

Dare you reply to the querie "do you or have you placed your hand near your heart and pledge allegiance",

The dog could have been giving you his opinion of your cooking?