Kierkegaard quote

I think outsiders judge a religion not by what it stands for but by the actions of its followers, which in my opinion gives Christianity a bad name. I still don't see how I can be surrounded by Christians all day long, every day of the year, who must believe I'm going to hell for eternity, and none of them do anything to try to warn me. At least the Mormons try, and I give them a lot of credit for that.

I don't know I've come to realize a couple of things: First of all I think it is harder to go to hell than people think. Secondly, I've found (sometimes the hard way) that trying to save someone with challenging words, or words in general, has the opposite effect. St. Francis of Assisi once said, "Preach the Gospel always, only when necessary should you use words." Hopefully some of those Christians that surround you are preaching to you without speaking.

Nareed, I'd love to go to WoV Con and I hope the information about the gathering finds it way over to DT. I fear however that there would be far too many people who would want to slap me.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know I've come to realize a couple of things: First of all I think it is harder to go to hell than people think. Secondly, I've found (sometimes the hard way) that trying to save someone with challenging words, or words in general, has the opposite effect. St. Francis of Assisi once said, "Preach the Gospel always, only when necessary should you use words." Hopefully some of those Christians that surround you are preaching to you without speaking.

From you, I learned the Catholic position is not as harsh when it comes to hell as the protestant one. The protestant position seems to be "Anybody who is not as at least as good a Christian as me is going to hell for eternity."

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Nareed, I'd love to go to WoV Con and I hope the information about the gathering finds it way over to DT. I fear however that there would be far too many people who would want to slap me.

I would not worry about that. I think there is tremendous respect for you presenting the Catholic position in an unfriendly venue for years. Whenever your name comes up in real life, people always say nice things. Besides, how many years in purgatory would one get for slapping a priest?

Quote: Wizard

I still don't see how I can be surrounded by Christians all day long, every day of the year, who must believe I'm going to hell for eternity, and none of them do anything to try to warn me.

Count your blessings.

There are plenty of Christians so concerned about people winding up in Hell, that they are willing to torture, oppress and terrorize them into the "true" faith.

Quote: Nareed

I don't find it "cynical." I find it cynical :)

Because it says there's no point in making a choice. It implies all choices are wrong, ergo you'll regret it no matter what you choose.

Ok, maybe it's nihilistic rather than cynical.

Rather like the famous Gary Larson cartoon of the guy in hell standing in front of two doors labeled "Damned if you do" and "Damned if you don't," and a devil prodding him saying "come on. it's got to be one or the other."

There shouldn't be (any regret). Many choices involve a trade-off. You can't choose everything, after all. Of course, it's not easy to say "this is the right choice," sometimes, until after years have passed. so maybe afterwards you find some of the trade-offs required by the choice not to your liking, as you explained, but if overall you're happy with your choice, then there is no regret. You may even find yourself wishing you'd done otherwise, but only from time to time. I wouldn't consider that regret, either.

Perhaps its usefulness has passed, but I'd argue your interpretation of my supplied quote.

I was born without, and failed to pick up, the concept that everything has a cost. I'm young enough that my youth and adolescence is a recent memory, and I remember much of my decision making was spontaneous and compulsive. Things like finances; if I needed my wheeler fixed, it was simply a question of "do I have the money now". Stuff like upcoming bills, needed repairs, all that stuff was out of mind. If I had it now, I used / did it now. Hockey, same thing. If I had a game, I was playing and I was giving 100% at all times. Having to roof the next day, having to go to a family function, not being able to afford medical expenses should something happen, not an iota of those types of thoughts were ever considered. And should something happen, it was never "Geez, maybe I shouldn't have allowed this situation to develop" i.e., maybe I shouldn't have done that thing. It was always "well, what do I do now?".

The thought that that "no matter what I do, I will regret it" made me think about my own life. It made me search for the exception. I just knew there was something in my life that I was so sure of, so committed to, I'd find some choice I made in which there was no regret. And I think for me, it created a revelation. There was nothing. Everything costs.

Knowing there was a cost, I obviously tried to define it, to assign value to it. And it led to the little formula I posted here before, that I use for every decision I make. Maybe it's dumb, and probably I should have figured it out long ago. But I didn't. Up until I found that quote and started thinking about it, every decision I made was purely emotional with thoughts only on the immediate. That quote allowed logic into the decision making, and allowed me to understand and predict the cost and risk of failure.

So, "nothing matters"? No. To me that quote reminds us that everything matters.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know I've come to realize a couple of things: First of all I think it is harder to go to hell than people think.

It seems to depend on whom you ask.

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Nareed, I'd love to go to WoV Con and I hope the information about the gathering finds it way over to DT. I fear however that there would be far too many people who would want to slap me.

None of the old regulars would, I'm sure. I can't say for the new degenerate gambler set. Come to think of it, I'm not sure we can even say "WoVCon" without paying some kind of royalty now ;)

Who knows? I may even set it up myself if no one else will.

Quote: Wizard

and none of them do anything to try to warn me. .

It's because in the heart they know hell
is a myth. It's the boogyman the church
uses to scare people into obedience.

It used to be a mainstay of sermons prior
to the 50's. But they've really backed off
on it in the last 50 years, you can got to
church every Sunday for a year and hear
it barely mentioned.

Just look at Christianity as a Parker Bros
board game. God, Jesus and the holy spirit
are in the center, and hell is like the jail
in Monopoly. They even have 'get out
of hell free' cards.

Quote: Evenbob

It's because in the heart they know hell is a myth.
It's the boogyman the church uses to scare people into obedience.

I find that some Amish sects truly believe in it. I think most people focus on the present rather than an unprovable future.

Quote: Face

So, "nothing matters"? No. To me that quote reminds us that everything matters.

Maybe English-as-a-second-language is a different language from English-as-a-native-language, but to me the plain meaning is "If you choose A, you'll regret it. if you choose B, you'll regret it , too." Then when given a choice between two alternatives, the choice leads to the same outcome. If so, then the choices are irrelevant.

Further if this applies to all choices in all circumstances, then nothing matters.

All you ever do, really, depends on choosing to do it (except when there is compulsion involved, but let's not quibble about that). All morality boils down to a guide for making choices. Choices are important. Learning to make good choices is important. Making good decisions on major issues, such as marriage, purchasing a home, investment, and so on, is important.

I'm glad you realize this, and that there are trade-offs involved in most choices, but really, the quotation says what it says. I fit helped you, I won't argue about it. I won't tell you you've made the wrong choice, either (clearly you didn't). I just don't think a trade-off necessarily leads to regret, or that regret is inevitable.