"Cult of Mary"

Quote: Face

I simply argue with your use of "many", as it implies a majority, which I believe to be completely false.

'Many' implies more than a few, not a
majority. 'Most' implies a majority,
which I did not use.

Quote: aceofspades

How is this worthy of a suspension? or even a yellow card

This is a touchy subject, one the Church strove
to hide for a very long time. They don't want
to talk about it or discuss it. I once heard a
high ranking priest in an interview say that
it's 'none of your business' when asked a
question regarding this subject.

Clergy in all religions think they are above
judgement by the rabble below them and
become indignant when challenged. They
think they answer to god and nobody else,
they think they're insulated. They're not.

I love the TV show Blue Bloods, about a
Catholic police family. They have priests
in the stories sometimes and it's frightening
to me how authoritative they act, ordering
people around and making judgement calls.
Their general condescending attitude is
appalling, or maybe it's that I have a problem
with authority figures. In my life, I'm the
authority figure.

Quote: aceofspades

How is this worthy of a suspension? or even a yellow card

A suspension? It's not. A yellow card? Well, that's probably my own fault for using a rule I don't understand at all =p

Many threads, many arguments, and they've all been fine. FrG, in his explanations, often paints atheists in a poor light. The same can be said for Team Atheist. Yet every counter is to the point. Any offense is understood and set aside as a necessary occurrence as the result of this type of argument.

Here, it appeared to me actual offense occurred as the result of a questionable post. Based on my interpretation of "many", I judged it to be an exaggeration and assumed that's what offended FrG. Thinking this was the case, my "yellow card" comment was to remind everyone to not get crazy and let this come off the rails.

To be clear, questioning the history of child abuse within the church is not an offense, nor is it what I was addressing. It appears this was nothing more than semantics, so again, carry on.

Quote: FrGamble

Sometimes I wrestle with answering you when you are so clearly antagonistic and rude, but I can't in good conscience allow such hurtful and unfair comments go unanswered.

Maybe you could give Evenbob an exorcism.

Can't see how it could hurt to try.

Quote: FRGamble, quoting a publication

According to the best available data (which is pretty good mostly coming from a comprehensive report by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in 2004 as well as several other studies), 4% of Catholic priests in the USA sexually victimized minors during the past half century. No evidence has been published at this time that states that this number is higher than clergy from other religious traditions. The 4% figure appears lower than school teachers during the same time frame and certainly less than offenders in the general population of men. Research states that over 20% of American women and about 15% of American men were sexually violated when they were children by an adult.

Geez FR, are you proud of that number, 4%. i would hope that the odds of my child being molested in a church setting to be ABSOLUTE ZERO.

Quote: boymimbo

Geez FR, are you proud of that number, 4%. i would hope that the odds of my child being molested in a church setting to be ABSOLUTE ZERO.

You get it. It's like the Church is saying, so what, it's
only 4%, lighten up. But you're right, these people
hold to an extremely high moral standard, they take
peoples confessions, they claim the pope and the
Church is infallible. If they're no more trustworthy
than the general public, what's the point of being
in the religion.

Being an atheist, it's obvious they aren't in touch
with god any more than any other big business.
In other words, not at all.

Quote: boymimbo

Geez FR, are you proud of that number, 4%. i would hope that the odds of my child being molested in a church setting to be ABSOLUTE ZERO.

To be fair to FRGamble, it is not a question of being proud. If 20% of American women were sexually violated as a child, then it is obvious that pedophalia cannot be considered rare.

If I were to give a Catholic priest advice, it
would be to follow the words of Theodore
Roosevelt. If you really believe you're doing
good works, are a good man, not an immoral
one, this should be your attitude.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

(Teddy was a suspected atheist, he is the only
president who refused to swear on the Bible
at his inauguration. He was dead set on removing
the word god from paper money. He refused to
give financial support to any religious schools.)

It seems that respondents on the religious threads seem to have more difficulty in holding to a topic than normal.

Complete NT references to Mary International Marian Research Institute, Dayton, Ohio 45469-1390,

AFAIK, prayers to Mary specifically did not exist in the first two centuries of Christianity. Many protestants are taught that Mary is respected in the gospels as the mother of Jesus, but not an object of veneration in her own right.

Quote: FrGamble

What in the world would make you think that the Bible is the only relevant book for Christianity? It is the inspired Word of God but does that mean we should ignore all other Christian writings? What about the Tradition of the Church that was around before the Bible and gave rise to it, shouldn't we see that as very relevant to Christianity as well?

The question is difficult to answer as one of the mantra's of much of Protestant denominations is that all belief systems must be traceable to the bible alone. Personally, I believe that is a bit idealistic, because no one can divorce themselves from centuries of interpretation.

Quote: Pacomartin

AFAIK, prayers to Mary specifically did not exist in the first two centuries of Christianity.

Mary was a non issue until later when
the Church had a hard time converting
pagans because they worshiped the
goddess. So they conveniently made
a goddess of their own, Mary. It
worked well, for a long time Mary
had the same power as Jesus in
the Church. Probably more. I would
be much more comfortable with a
female as a deity, if I believed in one.