Firearms With Face

December 26th, 2012 at 12:39:46 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 773
Posts: 9162
Washington police are investigating whether NBC's David Gregory broke the law by holding up what appeared to be a 30-round gun magazine on Sunday's Meet the Press despite being denied permission by police to bring the weaponry on the show.

It is illegal in the district to possess a "large capacity ammunition feeding device."

Gwendolyn Crump, director of the Office of Communications for the Washington Metropolitan Police Department, told ABC News, "NBC contacted MPD inquiring if they could utilize a high capacity magazine for their segment. NBC was informed that possession of a high capacity magazine is not permissible and their request was denied. This matter is currently being investigated."


Ridiculous
December 27th, 2012 at 5:43:12 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Quote: Pacomartin
It is illegal in the district to possess a "large capacity ammunition feeding device."



Gregory's very possession in a "restricted" zone proves LaPierre's point that restrictions are nearly useless as they'll be evaded by a determined atacker
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
December 27th, 2012 at 6:59:14 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5376
34 year old black male encounters 16 year old Moslem girl.
December 27th, 2012 at 9:43:56 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2010
Quote: Fleastiff
34 year old black male encounters 16 year old Moslem girl.


huh?
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
December 27th, 2012 at 3:03:05 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5376
Quote: odiousgambit
huh?

PacoMartin commented that he had no idea why the tape he posted a link to was labeled racist.
FleasStiff's response of "34 year olod black male encounters 16 year old Moslem girl" was an attempt to supply the answer for this London incident.
December 28th, 2012 at 10:29:17 AM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
Ridiculous


Quite. The whole thing is just idiotic.

I don't know Gregory's stance, and I'm only vaguely aware of the episode. But here's a guy who I assume is anti-gun or at least pro-control, who isn't a "bad guy", isn't "desperate", I assume doesn't have "criminal contacts", yet, somehow, managed to get his hands on a legally banned "high cap" (lol) magazine.

Still think banning more things is the answer?

Even the "hi cap" / "large cap" thing bugs me. What does "high cap" mean to these people? Technically speaking, a "high cap" mag is one which takes the capacity over that which was designated at the factory. That GLOCK19 with a 17+1 capacity featured in your clip isn't "high cap", it's just "cap". My NYS mandated 10 round mags for that gun are actually "lo cap". The 33 rounder that epic-beard showed, that would be "high cap".

So what is "large capacity", anyway?
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 28th, 2012 at 10:44:19 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Quote: Face
Quite. The whole thing is just idiotic.

I don't know Gregory's stance, and I'm only vaguely aware of the episode. But here's a guy who I assume is anti-gun or at least pro-control, who isn't a "bad guy", isn't "desperate", I assume doesn't have "criminal contacts", yet, somehow, managed to get his hands on a legally banned "high cap" (lol) magazine.

Still think banning more things is the answer?

Even the "hi cap" / "large cap" thing bugs me. What does "high cap" mean to these people? Technically speaking, a "high cap" mag is one which takes the capacity over that which was designated at the factory. That GLOCK19 with a 17+1 capacity featured in your clip isn't "high cap", it's just "cap". My NYS mandated 10 round mags for that gun are actually "lo cap". The 33 rounder that epic-beard showed, that would be "high cap".

So what is "large capacity", anyway?


Gregory's stance is all the rules and regulations limiting freedoms are not for the liberal elite like Gregory and the rest of the drive by media but for the rest of us, the "little people" and he proposed to LaPierre that magazines be smaller to limit carnage in these horrid slaughters. Absurd on its face (no pun here) and LaPierre wouldn't even consider, properly rejecting as laughably easy to get around. So Gregory in effect proved the point that even given existing restrictions in D. C. his staff readily made available a 30-round clip for this little dog and pony show.

I don't pretend to know the answer (and suspect there really isn't any) but his offering that some arbitrary smaller capacity is going to be part of a solution is sheer nonsense.
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
December 29th, 2012 at 10:20:17 PM permalink
Face
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Since we seemed to be on the SD track, let's carry on in that vein.

Some of the things I'll be talking about might seem callous. It is not my intention to be purposely so. But as FrG hinted at earlier, we're not talking about zombies here. When talking SD, you're talking about taking a man's life. Softening that reality isn't something I'd encourage. Think about it, understand what it means. Make sure you're fully prepared. You want all your questions answered and plans in place by the time you pull your weapon. Combat and questions do not mix.

I strongly suggest (I'd even demand, if I had the power) that you research your State's laws pertaining to carry and SD. Many States differ, and the rules can change depending on where you are (home vs car vs public place). When it comes to the laws governing SD, know them front to back, head to tail. No matter what situation you encounter, you never want to question whether or not you are in the right.

Laws vary so wildly, you probably don't even realize how severe the difference. For example, Texas is one of those states that have a heavy Castle Doctrine. Whether you're home, in a car, out on the town, walking down the street, or camping in a tent, whether someone's threatening your life, safety, or even property, you can use deadly physical force and likely be free of all charges. NY, on the other hand, is Castle Doctrine light. In almost all cases, you must flee. Unless under direct threat of death, or in the course of stopping an arson of your own home, if you shoot someone, you're going to jail for a long damn time. I cannot stress it enough - if you have a weapon for protection, know your State Laws!

Also know what SD means for you legally. In the case of a shooting, persons are innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution has to make a case putting you as the trigger man, the one who killed someone, etc. If you claim SD, know that that whole scenario flip flops. You, in essence, completey admit to all of the above and the prosecution no longer has to prove anything. You are now left to defend the reasons behind your actions; the prosecution just sits back and tries to punch holes in your story. IANAL, but if I'm ever in the position of shooting someone, I fully expect to be arrested, and I'd STFU until I get a lawyer. Legalese is never fun to parse through, but in this case, do it. It's as important to SD as the gun, the home, the ammo, the training. I can't raise my son from my grave, neither can I from behind bars...

That's about it for my legal disclaimer, unless someone wants to get into NYS law specifically. There's so much to learn I haven't gotten much out of my state, but if someone needs help for theirs, I could probably point you in the right direction. Until then, let's move on to firepower and how to choose your SD weapon.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 30th, 2012 at 12:01:38 AM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Stopping power. This is one of those terms that doesn't really have a definite meaning, but everyone uses it anyways. I'll try to break down what's important as it relates to stopping power to allow you to choose what weapon is best for you.

First, a short lesson to familiarize ourselves with ammo. Caliber vs mm is something we all should be used to, it's simply english vs metric measurements. "Caliber" is just another name for "inch". Bullets are measured by their diameter, hence, a .22 caliber bullet is twenty two hundreths of an inch wide. I prefer metric as it's more precise. For example, many bullets can fall under one caliber. A 30cal is pretty common, but that can refer to a 30-30, a 30-06, or a .308, to use some of the more popular sizes. These same "30cal" bullets when spoken in metric-speak are always specific - 7.62x51mmR (30-30), 7.62x63mm (30-06), 7.62x51mm (.308). Using metric also prevents mistakes in new shooters or lazy gun store employees. That Mosin I want and the DPMS I have both shoot a .308cal, but the DPMS is a 7.62x51mm and the Mosin is a 7.62x54mmR. If you get a gun that shoots .308 and you ignorantly buy ammo, you could buy 3 or more different kinds and find them all to be the wrong size. As you can see, all 30cal are not created equal. So learn metric, it's just better ;)



"Mag", as in ".357mag", denotes a high powered round. "Mag" just means a shit ton more powder is added in the casing. Below you'll see 4 very similar rounds. The 38 Special and .380 are the exact same size - 38/100's of an inch. The 9mm (.355cal) and .357mag are close enough to say they are equal as well. All four are within .025 inches of each other, yet look at the difference in size. In general, a "mag" will have more power, more penetration, and be more of a handful. (A little disclaimer, that doesn't always hold true. A 9mm, when broken down physically, is almost twice as powerful as a .357 mag. It's physics, man. What can I say? =P) For the most part though, a mag will be bigger and badder.



So stopping power...what does it mean? Well, bullets are all about transfering energy into a body; how well they do it depends on a number of factors. The two effects of this transer are, without using technical terms, the hole and the shock.

The hole is quite simple, it's the void caused by the bullet passing through. For maximum stopping power, you want to make as big a hole as possible while still being practical, as blood loss is key to stopping a target. A shotgun would do it nicely, but they have a hell of a kick. A .44mag's equally as good, but again, can you control it? I once heard "I'd rather take a .50BMG to the foot than a .22cal to the dome", and it's a very simple and well put statement concerning control. Big means nothing without control, but do go as big as you can.

In order to maximize the hole made by your particular weapon, you have to use the right ammo. While the muzzle velocity of a round will ensure maximum penetration, too much velocity can cause the bullet to zip right through, transfering little energy to the target. 9mm is notorious for this, and many people don't even realize they've been shot when hit with 9mm. Another issue is bullet type. A Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) round or "ball ammo" mostly holds its shape when contacting flesh. Again, that doesn't maximize potential damage. Hollow points would be your best bet, as they mushroom and expand as they pass, getting wider as they go.

Fragmentation or frangible rounds aren't something I'd consider just yet. Frag rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. The thought is that the fragments will poke a bunch of holes into a body, while poofing into harmless powder if you miss and hit a wall, preventing you from hitting your neighbor. The reports I've read all point to them not being reliable (and bloody expensive to boot). Some are too frangible, simply causing terrible flesh wounds, but not stopping targets. Others don't frag at all, punching through bodies and walls and all sorts of stuff. For now, stick with the tried and true.

As far as holes go, the bigger and slower the round (as long as they're fast enough to penetrate), the bigger the hole will be. In this regard, the shotgun is king, followed closely by your high caliber pistols, like the .44mag, .45, and 10mm.

The shock isn't something widely talked about, but it can be a big deal. Have you ever seen ballistics tests where a bullet is shot at gelatin, and upon impact, the gelatin block appears to almost explode? This is the shock. Shock can knock a person out cold. I read one report of a cop taking a not-fatal hit to the neck by a 5.56mm and the shock compressed his spine, knocking him unconscious and actually paralizing him for about a week. Shock can deal spinal injuries, concussions, and even stop the heart. The problem is that shock is usually caused by a high speed round, mostly your 5.56 and 7.62 rifle rounds, exactly opposite of the "big hole" rounds.

So which do you go with? Above all, go with what you can control. A small hole is better than none at all. Second, make sure you've got the right ammo. Shoot tons of cheap FMJ for practice, switch to the pricey HP for a defensive load. Third, I'd go with big hole rather than big shock. While shock is a definite weapon, I find it to be kind of random. A knockout blow is something I'd consider to be a freak thing, and due to where you should be shooting (ie not the hard-to-hit head/neck area) you're better off going with something that'll definitely work.

As a last bit of warning, don't assume "stopping power" means everything will stop right away. All animals, including humans, are incredibly tolerant to damage, and adrenaline and drugs can do some crazy things to a person. There is no shortage of stories and videos of people and animals taking several shots and still shooting or running away and living to tell the tale. As far as "instant stop" shots go, a CNS (central nervous system) shot is the only guarantee, and it's not a shot you try for. Do not let your guard down early, or expect a movie style one shot kill.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 30th, 2012 at 1:32:04 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 773
Posts: 9162
This may be a sideline, but why did that newspaper print the list of permitted handgun owners? I thought that most of the legal controversy after Newtown was about rifles (particularly those with large ammo clips). It seems as if the list was simply exploitive.