Gigafactory

Electric cars may or may not need a network of charging stations but Amazon just patented a server dispatched charging drone that will top your battery off on the fly so that you can get to the next charging station.
See /.

Quote: Pacomartin

I think the idea is fairly simple. If I'm a millionaire who lives in an ultra expensive apartment with thousands of dollars worth of steaks and shrimp in a refrigerator that will go bad in a day if I lose power, then I think this is a great invention. If I am solely devoted to solar power no matter how much money it cost me, it is also a great idea. If I have a business that demands I have quiet backup for short periods of time or I will lose money, then the Tesla Powerwall is for me.

But for everyone else, it is an overpriced toy, and the Governor of Nevada is crazy to give all those tax breaks thinking that this project will be worth $100 billion for the state.

Put yourself in the shoes of the Governor of Nevada. Suppose a Silicon Valley startup approaches your state with a proposal to build the largest building on the planet: 15 million sq ft. If you're the governor, are you sure you wouldn't offer a tax break? Even if Tesla goes bankrupt, Nevada would still come out ahead, because surely some company could find a use for the world's largest empty building. (After all, it's situated just 25 miles from the California state line, population: 39 million). I wouldn't use the word "crazy" to describe the Nevada governor's decision.

Currently in Australia, Tesla is installing a 129 MWh battery array near Adelaide. The battery will store enough power for 50,000 homes. And where is Tesla manufacturing it? Sparks, Nevada.

Quote: reno

Put yourself in the shoes of the Governor of Nevada. Suppose a Silicon Valley startup approaches your state with a proposal to build the largest building on the planet: 15 million sq ft. If you're the governor, are you sure you wouldn't offer a tax break?

"It's hard to make predictions. especially about the future."

Projections for hos much growth, investment and jobs will result are often inflated, or assume and impossible best-case scenario. Often the dollars in tax breaks per job created are astonishing. To the point that the state in question might have been better off giving such amounts as seed-money grants for small businesses.

Quote: Nareed

"It's hard to make predictions. especially about the future."

Projections for hos much growth, investment and jobs will result are often inflated, or assume and impossible best-case scenario. Often the dollars in tax breaks per job created are astonishing. To the point that the state in question might have been better off giving such amounts as seed-money grants for small businesses.

You're right, it was a big gamble for Nevada, especially back in September 2014, (which is when the Nevada site was announced.) Did Nevada's taxpayers get screwed in the deal? Time will tell.

One thing is for sure: it's unlikely that Tesla will go out of business, thereby abandoning a giant empty building in the Nevada mountains. In the past few months, there have been a series of developments that are working in Tesla's favor (and by extension, Nevada's.) For example:

Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in Norway, effective in 2030.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in the Netherlands, effective in 2025.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in England, effective in 2040.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in Scotland, effective in 2032.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in France, effective in 2040.

Those are small countries, so seriously... who cares. The big big news is that India and China will also ban sales of new diesel and gasoline vehicles. India's ban goes into effect in 2030, but China hasn't set a firm date yet.

How important is China's announcement? Let's put it this way: automobile sales in China account for 30% of all vehicle sales worldwide.

Tesla will prosper.

Quote: reno

One thing is for sure: it's unlikely that Tesla will go out of business, thereby abandoning a giant empty building in the Nevada mountains. In the past few months, there have been a series of developments that are working in Tesla's favor (and by extension, Nevada's.) For example:

Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in Norway, effective in 2030.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in the Netherlands, effective in 2025.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in England, effective in 2040.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in Scotland, effective in 2032.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in France, effective in 2040.

Those are small countries, so seriously... who cares. The big big news is that India and China will also ban sales of new diesel and gasoline vehicles. India's ban goes into effect in 2030, but China hasn't set a firm date yet.

I will believe all of these bans when I see them happen. CA rolled back their EV mandates of the 1990s when they prove to be unworkable. They have all the sighs of pols who want the votes and credit, knowing they will leave the table before the check arrives.

Quote: reno

You're right, it was a big gamble for Nevada, especially back in September 2014, (which is when the Nevada site was announced.) Did Nevada's taxpayers get screwed in the deal? Time will tell.

Even if the deal works out and Tesla produces tons of jobs, the taxpayers who don't get tax breaks get screwed. They get to pay the revenue Tesla won't. Seen another way, other nevada taxpayers end up picking up the state's bill for corporate welfare.

States should have the tax structures to promote economic growth and to raise the necessary revenue. the problem is that governments tend to focus more on the latter, and wind up issuing tax breaks (preferential treatment) to big companies to accomplish the former.

And there's nothing to be done about it. Any state unwilling to give preferential treatment to big business will find fewer companies moving in

Quote:

One thing is for sure: it's unlikely that Tesla will go out of business, thereby abandoning a giant empty building in the Nevada mountains. In the past few months, there have been a series of developments that are working in Tesla's favor (and by extension, Nevada's.) For example:

Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in Norway, effective in 2030.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in the Netherlands, effective in 2025.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in England, effective in 2040.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in Scotland, effective in 2032.
Sales of new diesel & gasoline-powered vehicles will be banned in France, effective in 2040.

there are a lot of possible snags:

1) the obvious one: these vehicle bans probably won't take effect at the appointed dates

2) Someone else may invent a better battery, or even a better fuel cell.

3) someone else may figure out a cheaper way to produce Li-ion batteries.

BTW, has it occurred to anyone that Saudi arabia might go from selling oil to selling sunlight? Think about it.

Quote: AZDuffman

I will believe all of these bans when I see them happen. CA rolled back their EV mandates of the 1990s when they prove to be unworkable. They have all the sighs of pols who want the votes and credit, knowing they will leave the table before the check arrives.

This sort of thing is an extremely tough sell in the USA.

How tough of a sell is it in Norway? Using last months data (September 2017) the people of Norway (population 5.2 million) purchased a total of 13,484 new passenger vehicles-- that includes all gasoline, diesel, and electric vehicles.

Of those 13,484 vehicles, 29% were EVs. Not half-assed hybrid gas plug-ins like the Chevy Volt, but fully totally electric with no gas tank. Tesla sold 2,003 vehicles in Norway last month. In other words, Tesla has 15% market share of vehicle sales in Norway.

Quote: reno

This sort of thing is an extremely tough sell in the USA.

How tough of a sell is it in Norway? Using last months data (September 2017) the people of Norway (population 5.2 million) purchased a total of 13,484 new passenger vehicles-- that includes all gasoline, diesel, and electric vehicles.

Of those 13,484 vehicles, 29% were EVs. Not half-assed hybrid gas plug-ins like the Chevy Volt, but fully totally electric with no gas tank. Tesla sold 2,003 vehicles in Norway last month. In other words, Tesla has 15% market share of vehicle sales in Norway.

As was pointed out, Norway is small and an outlier. Shorter travel distances. Though I am amazed they sell so well as EVs are awful in the snow, low resistance tires and cold kills batteries.

Quote: Nareed

2) Someone else may invent a better battery, or even a better fuel cell.

3) someone else may figure out a cheaper way to produce Li-ion batteries.

True. If someone else has a battery breakthrough, could Tesla license the technology and pay a royalty? Maybe, maybe not.

But no other auto manufacturer has a network of Level 4 charging stations (480 volt, 135 kW) except for Tesla. Tesla has 6,934 of them worldwide; 2,636 in the USA. Nissan has zero, GM has zero, BMW has zero, and so forth. That investment gives Tesla an enormous head start.

Here's a map:

Quote: AZDuffman

Though I am amazed they sell so well as EVs are awful in the snow, low resistance tires and cold kills batteries.

Once you get up into the Arctic Circle, owning any car (gasoline or not) can be a challenge. There's a reason that engine block warmers for gasoline cars have been around since the 1940s.

Norway's EV sales have been huge since 2013, so the market has had 4 years to either confirm or debunk the "cold kills batteries" myth. Tesla owners in Norway say cold weather reduces range by 20%. That's not negligible. But for the 220-mile range Model 3, that means it still gets 176 miles.