Simple question?

Quote: rxwine

For instance if you believed in viruses before there was actual proof, you are a no better than a "religionist" who doesn't need the actual evidence to believe.

For these people now, their 'evidence' is
they say god actually talks to them. Or
so they think. Of course there is no god,
so it's just them talking to themselves.

This is somewhat new. 40 years ago if you
went around saying god was talking to you,
even your fellow Xtions would shun you.
But now, because everybody seems to be
saying it, god talking is just fine.

You can see how the 'permission' angle works
in religion. If a lot of people are believing a
myth is true, then more and more will believe
it because how could all the others be wrong.
If you claimed god and Jesus were talking
to you a hundred years ago, they locked you
up. But now that everybody claims it, you
have permission to claim it also. Just another
form of mass delusion.

I shouldn't have hit the quote button. Anyway, It's all indoctrination is my point. It's easy to see it in others. Not so much in ones self. Go to college get indoctrinated. Go to church get indoctrinated. Same deal.

Quote: rxwine

Before evidence you can only hold a potential unproven idea and perhaps hope. But that is not evidence.

The people who believed in viruses didn't just make up their belief. It was not based only upon hope. Their ideas were based on scant evidence from which they developed a theory that more evidence later continued to verify and lead one to have complete trust in the existence of viruses.

Evidence does not prove something but only points you to its credibility so you can reasonably believe in it. You are looking for a preponderance of evidence that leads on to trust in something or believe it. Before evidence you can hold nothing, at least nothing reasonable. There is evidence in science that does not prove put can reasonably point to the universe having a beginning. The expanding universe and such. Logically we know that something that begins to exist must have a cause. We have not evidence or experience of anything that is contingent as also being eternal so trying to posit that the universe has always been here is either to make the universe into god or is an illogical statement. We have countless amounts of evidence in Scripture and Tradition about Jesus Christ. We have countless amounts of evidence up to this very day of His continued influence and effect on people's lives for the better. We have miracles and unexplainable phenomenon that is attributable to God. There is tons of evidence that points to the existence of God and the truth of Christianity. You can certainly try to discredit some and explain away others but isn't it always a little disappointing to be one the losing side or on the defensive? Wouldn't you like to present just one scrap of evidence that would lead one to believe that there is no God instead of always repeating the phrase, "That doesn't count as evidence." or "That can be explained away by such and such."?

Quote: Evenbob

For these people now, their 'evidence' is
they say god actually talks to them. Or
so they think. Of course there is no god,
so it's just them talking to themselves.

And around and around we go on the Evenbob circular logic ride.

Quote: FrGamble

His continued influence and effect on people's lives for the better.

I have no idea what this means.

Many people thank god no matter what happens to them. Such a low bar, to make god's actions meaningless.

It would be like my insurance company randomly decide to cover me sometimes and other times do nothing, yet I still thank them. That's crazy.

Quote: FrGamble

The people who believed in viruses didn't just make up their belief. It was not based only upon hope. Their ideas were based on scant evidence from which they developed a theory that more evidence later continued to verify and lead one to have complete trust in the existence of viruses.

Yes, there is a point where one could move to a god belief. Let's just say when you don't have a god fossil, or repeatable experiments, or something --- you're a ways from even scant evidence.

Considering all the people invested in it, surely they would have something by now to show us, outside of what charlatan's are capable of.

Quote: FrGamble

And around and around we go on the Evenbob circular logic ride.

How on earth is it circular logic? If I said
I was talking to unicorns, you'd say I was
talking to myself. Unicorns don't exist.

Don't you find it interesting that nobody
talked to god until others started saying
they were talking to him? This gave them
permission to make up their own 'experience'
with god.

If you cared, you would investigate mass
hypnosis. Not the show biz kind, the real
thing. Some psychologists say we're all
in a trance state most of our lives. Humans
are extremely susceptible to suggestion.
From the time we're babies we're trained
to think and act in certain ways. About
everything.

If you were unlucky enough to be raised in a
religious home, you're probably a devout
member of that religion. You really have no
choice. Your in a form of trance. My trance
involves no religion, so I can freely ask for
evidence of a god, and reject religion when
no real proof is shown.

You think atheists are playing games, I assure
you we are not. God matters not a whit to us.
He's a quaint idea that has no basis in reality.
We just don't think about it. We do know for a
fact that if there was a god, we'd see the
evidence. And there's none.

Quote: FrGamble

Evidence does not prove something but only points you to its credibility so you can reasonably believe in it.

If it were so, you'd have a chance of flying the Douglas Adams way(*), as the evidence for gravity would only mean you can reasonably believe in it, not that it was an ever present force.



(*) You jump off a high place, then aim for the ground and miss.

Quote:

You are looking for a preponderance of evidence that leads on to trust in something or believe it.

I'm looking for any evidence at all. What
you call evidence is no such thing. You
take something we have no answer for
yet, apply your religious theory to it, and
call it evidence. That's what your religion
has always done with everything. It's
why they burned witches at the stake. The
Church had no idea what caused certain
natural events, so they applied their religious
answer to the problem and declared it true.
Goodbye witches, we blame you.

AS for evidence, I demand of the church the same as I do of UFO alien believers, which is something more than a lot of claims and a lot of stories.

And I'm much in favor of finding some alien craft. But until there is a real piece of craft, or an alien, I can't even call the evidence scant. An intelligent signal from space would help considerably. So far it falls in the province of the swamp ape. If that picture is ever confirmed as not being a guy in a hairy costume, we might have something.

And why do I have to prove any of those don't exist? Gimme a break.