Simple question?

Quote: rxwine

Hell doesn't make sense as a just (as in justice) action on any level no matter who ends up there.

It made sense in the context of late antiquity.

Consider the case of how Hadrian handled a rebellion in Judea in the second century CE. He laid waste to Jerusalem, expelled all the Israelites from it, and renamed it Aelia Capitolina after himself and Jupiter. IN effect he intended to destroy Jerusalem as a Jewish city forever. He failed, long term, but the intent is clear.

A deity seen as the supreme absolute Imperator of all that exists, would punish his enemies in the same fashion; harshly and forever.

Now, if you object that this doesn't quite mesh with the idea of an all-merciful, all-loving deity, you'd be absolutely right. But what does that have to do with the price of beer?

Quote:

One can only assume, they couldn't impress non-believers with a more mild limited hell, so they basically went way beyond the scope of actual justice.

Christianity is not a religion for this world, but it can offer solace, of sorts, in this world.

Again, take in the context. In ancient times most people were poor. Hunger was a chronic problem, as was malnutrition, with all the associated features such as illness, parasites, filth, etc. Not to mention people worked very hard every single day, with little respite or rest. There were a few rich individuals sheltered from some of these problems, who at least were well nourished and didn't exhaust themselves daily, and a few "middle class" people in the cities.

Oppression in many forms was common as well, particularly for slaves and women.

So tell the poor that poverty is virtuous and will be rewarded in the "next world," and further that those who oppress them will be punished for all eternity, and you have a major selling point.

Though how things proceed under Christianity in the Middle Ages is rather frightening.

Quote: Dalex64

Did not create it for us, yet allows us to be sent there, and in fact promises sinners and non-believers will end up there. Not meant for us? Then don't send us there.

Let's remember that God is not sending anyone there. We choose to go there on our own, God is doing all that He can while respecting our freedom to have us choose Heaven.

Quote:

You could use the same logic to suggest that heaven wasn't created for us, either. It is the home of god and angels, and we are allowed to be sent there. It looks like earth/the universe was the only place created for us.

Nope, we are made for Heaven and Heaven is made for us. God's plan for us is perfect happiness and fulfillment, that is why we are all created.

Quote: Dalex64

Infinite punishment for finite transgressions and crimes is one of the things used to label the punishment, and the creator that allows it, as unjust.

How finite are our transgressions when they set an attitude and philosophy of life? We have eternal souls and when we spend our lives on Earth willfully doing evil, hurting others, and other sins we are not just committing finite acts we are forming an eternal soul.

Quote: Dalex64

Right, Jewish beliefs don't have this christian hell or eternal punishment.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/#

I'm sure how you reached your statement after reading that informative article. It seems clear that Judaism developed a teaching on punishment and reward in the afterlife while reflecting on their Scriptures.

Quote: FrGamble

Let's remember that God is not sending anyone there. We choose to go there on our own, God is doing all that He can while respecting our freedom to have us choose Heaven.

Let us also remember that:

Ignorance is Strength
Oppression is Love
War is Peace

And all people are equal, but straight, Catholic people are more equal than others.

Quote: Nareed

Let us also remember that:

Ignorance is Strength
Oppression is Love
War is Peace

And all people are equal, but straight, Catholic people are more equal than others.

Absolutely none of this is true.

Quote: FrGamble

Absolutely none of this is true.

Well, of course it's not true. Very little of what Christians believe is true. The point is they still believe it.

Christians believe none of what you posted. You are only saying what you think Christians believe like what Evenbob thinks sin is. I can't defend or agree with your perversions of the Church's teachings.

Quote: FrGamble

Christians believe none of what you posted.

There are explicit beliefs and implicit beliefs. The latter are often shown in practice, while the former are often the subject of lip service.

Judging by actions, then, these are the beliefs shared by most Christians.

Quote: Dalex64

Did not create it for us, yet allows us to be sent there, and in fact promises sinners and non-believers will end up there. .

The Christian part of the Bible promises that,
not the Jewish part. The OT never really talks
about punishment or reward after death, it's
about what happens in the here and now that
matters.

It's those wascally writers of the NT, whoever
they were, that invented the modern theme park
called hell.