Gandler/Mission Digression

Quote: Mission146

That's probably a fair statement, but I think we're closer on this one than we think. You're saying it's possibly involuntary manslaughter, I'm saying it's almost certainly involuntary manslaughter and we're both saying it's definitely not First Degree Murder. I would vote Not Guilty on First Degree Murder simply on the grounds that I can't find premeditation to kill; their actions speak otherwise. I'm not really up on hate crime laws, to be honest, so there might be something there worse than Involuntary Manslaughter that could apply. You can lock in my guilty vote on that and I'm usually the guy you want on your jury.

The death penalty is a non-consideration for me because, not only am I not personally opposed, I think someone convicted of anything should be given the right to die of their own volition. Saves money, among other reasons. More than that, I consider it an issue for the individual states. Jethro and Cleatus probably deserve to die, or be locked up for the rest of their lives as a tremendous and ongoing danger to society, but the law doesn't support that.



Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia. Good enough? Oh, and I'm born in West Virginia, which is de facto part of the South, as far as I am concerned. They're polite enough, but you can bet your @$$ you'll never find dumber people on average, except maybe Kentucky. These are the people that you'll go to the store and your total will be something like $7.82, so you give them $23 and they just give you a blank stare. Then they'll say, "It's only $7.82, the twenty is enough," and try to hand the singles back to you, as if I don't F#^&%$&ing already know that. "Oh, twenty is more than $7.82? Thank you for your help!" I'm obviously trying to get a ten and a five back because the other result would be having five singles, which makes no sense.

It's pretty much the same in the South, from my experience. Up here, the cashiers are at least intelligent enough to figure I might have some idea what I'm doing, ring it in and see what happens. I figure most of them probably understand my intent, but that's what an eighth grade equivalent education will get you.



I agree with the first part of what you said, but we also know where the Confederate flag started. More than that, you see it a lot in WV and OH, though not as much in PA, from my experience. Of course, I spend as little time as possible in Pennsyltucky, so maybe it's different. As far as I'm concerned, if they like the Blood-Stained Banner so much, they can move their happy @$$3$ down to the South where they, and the flag, belong. In fact, you guys can obviously have West Virginia, if you even want it.



2001? Well, excuse me, I didn't realize you guys were so Progressive on this issue that long ago in the past and you have my apologies.

It is a multilayered issue. If you fly it, you're either:

A. A racist.

OR:

B. One of the least sensitive people in this entire country.

So, two layers. You're quite right.



It did cause the most damaging war because the South's efforts failed. The Union should have beaten all hell out of the Confederates, which they did, made them promise never to have the institution of slavery again and then let them have their disgusting country. Either that, or kill all of the plantation owners and Confederate soldiers outright. The biggest mistake the Union made was accepting your surrender when we could have easily wiped them off the map entirely.

Yeah, you've got a bunch of people down there who are outwardly polite and are total backbiters and hypocrites behind closed doors. You've got these church-goers who preach the, 'Word of God,' and call out their own supposed friends who are doing the wrong thing...but then you find out they've themselves cheated on their spouses. I remember we had some sort of Church of Christ I went to for about two years...anyway, both the preacher and then the second guy who became the preacher ended up cheating on their wives...both with other wives of the church! Isn't it a beautiful institution? As I understand, the first guy is a preacher at the same denomination of church in Columbus now.

Do you suppose he teaches, "The Nine Commandments?" I know of at least one that he's not so fond of.

Look at this Protestant affiliation by state:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/12091/tracking-religious-affiliation-state-state.aspx

I'm giving you West Virginia who, even by Southern standards, is a total embarrassment. That means the South would own the Top 10 with exception only to Oklahoma. Even with Florida, which is considerably people from the North, the mean score for the South has to be in the mid to high sixties.

And then, if you whip out a word someone doesn't know you just get this weird look, right? They'll just look at you. They won't say anything, just look. The confusion in their eyes initially betrays them and the stare that follows is just creepy. I haven't spent a LOT of time in the South, but this has happened more times than I count, and of course, some of you unfortunately make your way up here from time to time. They don't know what the word means and they won't ask because they're embarrassed. But, it's nothing new for White Protestants to have all of the intellectual curiosity of a cucumber, now is it?

But, yeah, you guys are publicly more polite than we are. Nobody in Pittsburgh has ever helped someone carry out groceries or put a shopping cart back for an elderly person, etc. etc.

I mean, granted, you guys are more SHOWY about your politeness. Saying, "Good morning," to random passerby as if I believe for a second that they actually give one sweet ^$%^&$ what kind of morning I have. They've never seen me before. There's no way that they care. They can shove good morning up their @$$ and quit wasting my time is what they can do.

Excuse me, it's "Good mornin'," because nearly every single one of them drops the 'G.' Maybe even throw a 'darlin'' after for good measure. Please don't call me darling because I'm not your child and it disgusts me, thank you. God, those people are completely insufferable.

At least we're real human beings up here. We comport ourselves politely, hold doors (at least I do and lots of others), yield if someone is crossing our path and have a hand-wave, "Go ahead," battle until someone submits. All of the polite actions, but we don't go around talking to everyone for no reason because we're not stupid enough to believe that the person we are talking to actually gives one crap about what we have to say. You never know what some Southerner thinks about you, up here, if I don't like you...don't worry...it won't be hard to tell.

You can call it, "Down to Earth," and I'll call it they're a bunch of sanctimonious and totally fake morons.



I already explained your Twitter poll; it was a junk measurement. If you have 30% African-Americans, then you're not going to see them talked about badly on Twitter as frequently. The separation between PA and GA is 1.55%, but you have nearly 20% more African-Americans than PA. It's not difficult to identify a cause for the disparity.

I am not talking about standardized tests, I'm talking about educational attainment. You can look it up for yourself. There are seventeen states below the mean H.S. Diploma or higher, and you guys can claim ten of them. That's with the North claiming West Virginia, by the way, which we really shouldn't. What did the Confederacy have, thirteen states, and now you have 10/13 riding the bottom in educational attainment?

Well, that's what being heavy on religion will do for you. The ironic thing is I probably have a greater working knowledge of The Bible than most of them, but that's what being smart enough to actually read information and retain it will get you.



I don't think I've lived anywhere that I've genuinely liked, but unlike the South, I certainly don't hate it. I don't plan on moving in the near future, either, but I might move out West one day. Probably not to Nevada. I might also move to Florida, but Florida's not really what I'm talking about.



I have cited the statistics above. High religious propensity negatively correlates with educational attainment. IOW, they're idiots. That's why they believe in God in the first place, you know. They take comfort in the notion that there is something greater than this life because they otherwise lack the intellectual capacity to accept the fundamental meaninglessness of their own lives. They cannot accept randomness. They do not understand why bad things happen, sometimes to, 'Good people,' if you really want to call them that...and therefore find it necessary to seek out a higher purpose and grand plan for the whole thing.

They introduce the concept of God in every day conversation and act shocked when their fundamental notions are challenged, because they lack the intellectual wherewithal to defend same. They say they will pray for me and I tell them what they can do with their prayers. They ascribe everything that happens, including things that could be made better, as being part of, "God's will," or some divine plan.

Granted, they are probably not looking for a challenge. But, increasingly, they are not getting the conformity and unquestioning acceptance to which they have become accustomed. That's because they won't give the same acceptance to anyone else.

And, as it turns out, they don't like the taste of their own medicine. Well, that's just too bad. The good news is, in several generations, they will all have died because they don't have the replacement numbers as we become increasingly secular, which is to say more intelligent, on average.



Your pride is misplaced and is one of the fundamental elements that make us such a laughingstock on the world stage. Granted, you are personally more than capable of defending your positions, but most people who espouse such pride cannot. They vote often for Republicans because they are seen as, "More patriotic," whatever the hell that means. I guess it means more warmongering and imperialistic in nature, because Republicans are certainly good at that.

Thou shalt not kill, though, never forget.



I'll take the tradeoff, and I wasn't really including Florida.



The notion that the Southern accent is, "Pretty rare," is patently absurd. You've been in the South, I've been in the South, the accent exists. It is what it is. It can be helped, but they wouldn't care to help it...but it's really no big deal, honestly. I just don't care to hear it. I naturally have something of an Appalachian accent, but I've mostly trained it out of my voice. Mostly by way of clearly enunciating. I sometimes still use, "Ta," instead of, "To, too, two," and I hate myself for it. I'll get better, work in progress.



Yeah, go tell the White Protestants that. I am not the problem, here.



All of the above. Yes, there are more than zero great people. There are even more than zero great White Protestant Southerners, it's just not as statistically likely.



Yeah, the Mayor of Moundsville, WV (at least the most recent I am aware of) is/was African-American. They are still a bunch of polite, though uneducated, morons with a probability of being total racists that I put somewhere in the 25% area. The good news is that those ones are mostly dying off. In fact, one of the churches even closed down due to a lack of congregants a few years back, but it's a very slow progress. I'm glad I got the hell out of there. Both you and they can have your superficial and sanctimonious politeness.




My claims are backed by statistics. It's not that all parties mentioned do not exist at all elsewhere, simply that they are more likely to exist in the South. I would be totally in favor of them getting the hell out of here and all of the religious types just taking the South, but I doubt they'll do us the favor.

I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to employers. If you have an employer in the North, you most certainly must do your job to remain employed. You would have to explain your specific position to me because I don't understand what you're trying to say. I think you were looking for impotent rather than impudent. Impudent means to be disrespectful.

Quote: terapined

Wow, a lot of writing I agree with, a lot I don't. Its a lot to take in.
I really appreciate your long posts. I really do. A lot of good insight but you took things too far regarding the South
As to your above sentence, are you f**king kidding me
Hmm
Robert Johnson
Muddy Waters
BB King
ELVIS
This is the birth of rock music. Where would we be without these greats.
And Country music which I have to admit I am recently really appreciating due to Ken Burn's Country music
The Carter Family
Johnny Cash.
The list is endless
Don't forget the fabulous music out of Muscle Shoals
and
of
course
THE ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND. My 2nd favorite band after the Dead. Fantastic southern music building on the blues. They took pride in the South because their heroes were Bluesmen from the South.
The history of music in the South is deep and rich, a lot to be proud of.

Quote: Gandler

You can't just randomly pick which States are in the "South" by what you like and don't like lol....

Florida not South Because you like FL?
WV South because you don't like it? A lot of people do not know this but WV, actually exists because it broke away from the Confederacy (broke apart from VA)….

Quote:

Let's agree (hopefully) that the "South" is defined as the former Confederate States/territories:
This includes: SC, NC, VA, GA, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.
I would say this is a fair definition of states in the "South". (Please note I did not include WV for reasons above).

Quote:

You keep going on about religion. I am an atheist, I don't like religion. Most Americans are religious, it is what it is.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/29/how-religious-is-your-state/?state=alabama
This breaks down states by level of religion. You are right, that for the most part the South (again you are not clearly defining what this means to you, but based on my definition) dominates this list. America is a secular country, which allows local domination of religion (which I would argue is only possible in a secular country). I wish more Americans would not be religious, but, its not something that should be forced. I am a political secularist (freedom of/from religion) not a political Atheist (State Push Atheism like in many Former Soviet States)….

Quote:

As for patriotism being foolish. I would argue the complete opposite. We live in the most powerful country in World History. Even though we are not an Imperialist country (despite your statement), we have the ability to have a command presence anywhere in the world within hours based on the infrastructure of our military and critical alliances. Anyone who says "USA #1" drunk at a football game, may not know this, but they are right. Even if the whole world declared war on the United States at once (unlikely since we have two powerful allies at both the North and South border, but even if they turned), there would be no chance of victory for the opposition. We at all times have enough nuclear weapons (not just in America but in subs and aircraft constantly secretly patrolling) to ensure instant defeat of any enemy..... Not only is there no Country that matches us, the rest of the world cannot match us combined based on nuclear weapons alone.... This is critical because it prevents any rational actor (sadly our primary enemy is not rational as you will agree since you don't like religion) from direct attacks, while allowing us to make the world a better place. America has had many opportunities to take many lands (some including our current President) think that we should have. I don't. Going back to the Spanish American War, the United States has liberated countries from Empires (Spain in that case)…. There is a reason the Philippines love America. Cuba backfired, but that is a risk when the controlling force is removed (though we still have the base there that Cuba at the time agreed to and we pay for even if they make a publicity stunt of burning the check every year...).

I have travelled to many countries, and the U.S. is simply the best. There are few other countries I would consider moving to (maybe France or Australia).
Now, it can improve (specifically in healthcare and social reforms). But, it was founded on secular principles, way ahead of its time, that guide us through today.

Quote: Mission146

I don't especially like Florida, I just don't consider it the same culture because it's made largely up of either Hispanics or implants from the North.

Quote: Mission146

Everyone knows that about West Virginia. What most people do not know about West Virginia, then western Virginia, is that the rifts in the state predated the Civil War. Statehood for West Virginia had been brought up long before this, mostly because of the impassable mountain divide between the two areas, but the first attempt failed. In a sense, it never really got off of the ground. The cultures of the two areas also ended up being profoundly different, as the western half of Virginia would go on to favor a more Democratic state model than would the eastern half. West Virginia was also subject to unfair taxation as part of Virginia, again, prior to the Civil War.

The eastern part of the state had the population advantage, therefore more seats in the State Legislature, which may have been called The Assembly, but I don't remember the exact term off of the top of my head. Because of the population advantage, they were routinely able to pass into law (not to mention the Virginia State Constitution itself) items that would be favorable for the East, but not the West.

Anyway, what the Civil War did was kind of speed up the inevitable. It was just the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. In modern times and culturally, spend ten minutes there and you will know, they are more Southern than they are Northern.

Quote: Gandler

Let's agree (hopefully) that the "South" is defined as the former Confederate States/territories:
This includes: SC, NC, VA, GA, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.
I would say this is a fair definition of states in the "South". (Please note I did not include WV for reasons above).

Quote: Mission146

That's fine.

Quote: Mission146

They vote their religion, even though their would-be restriction of personal freedoms has no religious authority behind it. None whatsoever. Please don't make me start quoting scripture.

I understand that you're an Atheist, and I would assume, not the only one down there. As stated, I'm just informing you what the percentages are. In an ideal world, all of the White Protestants from up here would GTFO and move to the South. They are, of course, free to do as they like. Similarly, I am free to express that I am sick of looking at their pamphlets, their churches and them. I'm sick of hearing people say that they will, "Pray for," other people or, "God bless," other people...and if they wish to express these thoughts in the public forum, I will express my thoughts directly to the contrary. I will grant them the same level of acceptance that they would to homosexuals and other marginalized communities...which is no acceptance whatsoever.

And, I will engage them in a conversation, if they wish. But, again, they're terrified without their numbers backing them and clam up very quickly.

It would seem our sources, more or less, agree. At least Pennsylvania is improving. Maine is looking really attractive, right now.

I am also a political Secularist, but with that said, I cannot help but challenge them on principle alone.




Who cares about living in the most powerful country in World History, assuming that's even true? It may be presently true, but I don't think it's true relative to all of history. Excellent. We have tremendous military right that we can then use to impose our will on others. I guess that kind of goes hand-in-hand with a high propensity towards religion, history teaches us that religions are often very good at that.

The notion that we would win a war against the entire world is laughable, unless you're referring to our capacity to just nuke the entire planet a few times over. Our military might should not be a source of pride for us, but rather embarrassment, and the fact that we would flex our muscle to achieve our ends as a country...and have citizens willing to point that out without the slightest trace of humility...is shameful.

We rarely make the world a better place. We are extremely slow in even making ourselves a better place. That our military strength is a source for some ill-conceived notion of pride is itself a national embarrassment. Why would you even be proud of being born somewhere? It's not like you chose this.

I've never been out of the country, but I've spoken to several people from abroad, and having the flag flying from just some normal house, or on the front lawn, is a uniquely American thing. It's irrelevant, because we are not good neighbors to the rest of the world anyway, but this is one of many factors that make us a total joke. We pledge allegiance to the flag in our schools, thereby indoctrinating into us, from a very young age, a blind sense of ridiculous patriotism. You do understand THAT IS ALSO HOW RELIGION WORKS, right? They take the small-minded and brainwash them into thinking that we are somehow better than other countries, which in the general sense, would make us better than other cultures.

Most Americans are unconcerned with how we are perceived and do not particularly care to know anything about the histories and cultures of other countries. As far as they are concerned, we are the best, end of story, so why should anyone care about anything else?

While we are certainly not the worst, we are equally certain to be not the best people in the world, not the best country, not the best culture and certainly not the best educated. There are statistics to bear out this assertion, if you want them. Because of that, collectively, we can think of no real solution to problems other than to have the best brute force, which if you didn't know, means that we occasionally cause other countries to de facto become our slaves rather than freely associate. We are the world's mafia.

And, after all of this not being the best...I stipulate that the South, in general, represents the worst of us. They are the most concerned with military strength so we can impose our will upon others, they are the most religious, they are the stupidest and they are the most patriotic. And, while one does not have a perfect correlation with the rest, these things often go hand in hand in measurable ways.

America will liberate whoever it is beneficial for America to liberate and ignore the rest. Countries exist with citizens in servitude and we care nothing about those countries as long as we are either making money off of them or there is no way to profit from liberating those people. Where is our military strength then? Not that we would really have any right to use it.

Healthcare and social reforms are immaterial to me and would require more deficit spending. Yes, maybe, one day, when the budget is balanced and we have a surplus. Now is not the time. The best way for America to improve would be to change the culture and become more educated, though not necessarily by way of the state. We could improve by becoming more intellectually curious and increasingly secular...but we are getting there. It will take some time, but we will get there. The religious people are dying off and will not be replaced in full. Eventually, several generations from now, they will all be gone and we can turn their pointless buildings into daycare centers, or something.

Quote: Gandler

I love the Allman Brothers Band, I was fortunate enough to see them live twice (both in NJ ironically). They have a very unique sound to their music.

Quote: Gandler

Yes, which goes back to my earlier diversity point, many Whites, Hispanics, and African Americans in the South. This is a mix of history and immigration (or transplantation). In FL many refugees flee there from Cuba and other oppressive Latin American countries.

Quote:

Many people don't know this. And, up North many people view WV as one of the most backwards States and automatically associate it with the Confederacy....

Quote:

People are free to vote on religious principles. However, no law can be established based on religious principles.

Quote:

You are right that religion is dying out. Some is due to religious people dying off. But, most is due to the internet. I always disliked going to church and it felt silly. But, until the internet I never really understood Atheism. The internet makes available talks from Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Douglas Murray, and Christopher Hitches (RIP) that I know effected me in the early days of YouTube. Bad ideas are killed by good ideas. With the internet any kid can read articles debunking supernatural claims or watch compelling videos. Honestly, I can contribute my Atheism to Christopher Hitchens because I found him a wonderful orator (and it also helps that I agree with him on many other issues such as the Iraq War and social programs)…. No longer do high school kids have to comb libraries to find obscure books about religion (if schools even carry them), now they can see it all on their laptops and phones.

Quote:

I agree that soon Atheism will be the norm. I don't even know if many generations are required. It may happen in our lifetime. Parts of Europe it already is (despite European countries ironically not being secular). Which goes back to the fundamentals of American . The 1st Amendment allows religions to flourish while prohibiting a State Religion.

Quote:

One Nation Under God is on our coins only since the 1950s, before that it was the Latin for "From Many One" which I think is better in the sense of not being religious, but also more patriotic.... Same with the National Anthem that you mention, the "under God" portion was written in, in the 1950s, it is not the original text.

Quote:

Even the Declaration of Independence was edited to add in "the Creator" , Jefferson opposed that addition to his work, but it was above him at that point.... You can view the original online (it also includes a critique of slavery which congress also edited out)…. Jefferson was very secular, his Bible is an interesting read (essentially he "cut" all of the supernatural parts out of the bible which makes it a very short read)…

Quote:

Flag Flying is normal is some areas, UK has a lot of pride, and you see the Union Jack a lot....

Quote:

I am proud of being an American because the values match mine. If I was born elsewhere I would want to come here (as much of the world does)….. There is a reason that some of America's biggest defenders are immigrants.... People love America.... I was born here by chance..... I am fortunate..... I am still proud of my Country, and everyday I do everything that I can to make my country a better place.

Quote:

Military pride is a fine thing to be proud of. Most countries are proud of their military. We simply have the best. And, now with Space Force (one of the few great things Trump has done) it will grow even better.

Quote:

Most of the world is unconcerned with any history. Most Americans are no exception... You act like this is an American problem. There are very few people anywhere who are an expert on world history and cultures. (Shoot, 15% of the world is completely illiterate..... forget even basic education....)

Quote:

As for America only getting involved in places that benefit America, completely false. Spanish American war, almost no benefit to America. WW1, same thing. WWII we were directly attacked. Korea (where we still are, and are kind of "technically" still at war), no gain to use except to stop the spread of communism, Vietnam, no gain to use except to stop the spread of communism. The First Gulf War? We freed Kuwait from invasion, with no gain to us. The Iraq War, no gain to us, we gave the oil and the country to the government. The Conflict in Afghanistan, no gain to us other than keeping Al Queda and the Taliban on their toes (though we built dozens of schools while there and forced women to be allowed in school). America has also been involved in endless humanitarian responses around the world. Without the American military, the world would be a more dangerous place. Even the Navy, routinely saves other countries ships from pirate attacks in trade lanes with no benefit to us.... America is a force for good in the world.
Just take WWII without America, Japan and Russia would control pretty much all of Asia and the Pacific, and Germany and Italy would control most of Europe. Our military stopped them when the Chinese (and many pacific nations) and UK were failing...

Quote:

Not the best educated? Yes. But, the countries that are have state sponsored schools and colleges which I am sure you oppose (I do not by the way, I think we need more schooling)…. Not the best Culture? That is opinion, American culture is young and mixed, I love it.
Not the best country in the world? Well based on GDP and Military we are #1 (BY A LOT). Again, subjective depending on what makes a good country for you, but we are simply the richest and most powerful country that currently exists or has ever existed....

Quote: Mission146

Which goes to my point as to WHY you would generationally have so many African-Americans to start with. As you mentioned, you're also closer to two primarily Hispanic countries, so it makes sense that you would have more of them, as well. Not that most of you, "Build the Wall," (not you, personally) types actually want them there. Unconditional free trade and open borders are the answer. Citizenship should be something like a one-page form and be granted instantly to anyone who would make the mistake of voluntarily coming here.

Quote: Mission146

They are wrong about the Confederacy and right about it being one of the most backwards states. As highlighted before, they have some of the lowest educational attainment and highest propensity towards religion of any state in the country.

Quote: Mission146

But, there were laws so established. What used to be our marriage laws were established on such principles, but that was mainly the fault of the Government for not simply designating the Civil institution of marriage as something else. IOW, they shouldn't have used the same word. Much as a particular church should have no reason to recognize a homosexual pair as being married, a religious institution should similarly have the right to marry whomever they wish without the Government's consent, which I guess could include polygamy. It's not like it really matters because religions are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

Quote: Mission146

I agree that the access to information thanks to the Internet has mercifully sped up an already ongoing process.

Quote: Mission146

I'm not quite as optimistic as you are, but I would certainly love to live to see it. The good news is that we have reached the point that we no longer need to quietly accept them, since they don't accept anyone outside of their own collective...though they do try to bring people in. We are at the point now where it is socially acceptable to go on the offensive against the enemy.

Quote: Mission146

Yes, and unfortunately, all humiliating things. We will hopefully eliminate those things, at some point. We should get rid of the Pledge of Allegiance entirely, except for members of the military, I suppose.

Quote: Mission146

Hell, you could cut it in half just by not caring about whom begat whom. Why the hell does The Bible need filler, anyway?

Quote: Mission146

Nobody's perfect. If they disestablish the Monarchy, which will never happen, then they might begin to deserve to have pride.

Quote: Mission146

Nobody's perfect and I'm no exception.

Quote: Mission146

It's a terrible thing to be proud of, unless we only use it for the purpose of direct defense. The Space Force might be the single dumbest thing I've ever heard of and is a total waste of money and other resources. Of course, mostly all it did was call something we already had something else. Yeah, we named something new. Woohoo. U.S.A.. U.S.A..

Quote: Mission146

It is an American problem because, as Americans, we are in a unique position to generally not have to worry about day-to-day survival which makes us better equipped to expand our intellectual horizons. That we have some of the best living standards, and yes, the best military on Earth and yet are one of the dumbest of the developed countries is laughable. It's also primarily the fault of religion. Religion, as it were, is primarily the fault of the South...which is also the dumbest place in this entire country. None of these things are a coincidence.

Quote: Mission146

We were involved in WW1, for one thing, before we were involved in direct defense. Where do you think the Allies got the weapons from? We want to stop the spread of Communism for our own gain as a country, from a trade standpoint, we don't care one iota about liberating other people. Listen to all of our bull%#%^% military propaganda, it's all kind of nonsense about, "Keeping America safe," which in modern history starting with WW2, is only true of WW2 and arguably Afghanistan. We protected Kuwait for favorable oil prices. We had no business whatsoever in Iraq the second time around.

WWII was at a virtual stalemate and what we did was put another rook on the board on the Allied side.

Quote: Mission146

I don't necessarily oppose them. For one thing, I would take the system that already exists and make it a minimum case, since we have already done it, and it's probably the only way to enforce some level of education in the South. Aside from that, I personally support public education, expanded public education (if the funds exist to support it without increased taxation) and otherwise think education should be left up to the individual states. Aside from mandating that there must be some sort of K-12 public education program, the Federal Government should get out of it entirely and the states and schools should be left to fund themselves.

Quote: Mission146

At which point, the Southern states can do whatever they like with it. They won't even have to vote against their own interests anymore because they'll be in control of the situation. Every dollar in Federal money spent down there on education has proven to be an almost complete waste anyway.

We are not #1 in the only area that actually matters: education. That we are #1 in Military without being #1 in education is an embarrassment. We were born into a country, society and culture consisting of barbarian troglodytes who believe in a mythical space creature from whom they take guidance...and they don't even do that right. I'm surprised that velcro strap shoes are not more popular, but I suppose most of us can master basic physical acts with enough repetition.

Quote: terapined

Its a great sound grounded in the Blues
Saw them about 40 times
Saw multiple shows at the historic Beacon Theater in NYC
Actually saw them on a military base, Aberdeen Proving Grounds.
Multiple shows at Merriweather Post Pavilion
A ton of shows at their yearly Wanee festival up at the Spirit of the Suwanee Music Park and Campground

Quote: Gandler

I agree that the legal process for citizenship needs to be sped up. But, I don't want open borders. Borders define a country. Its like saying at a local level "tear up all parcels boundaries in the county there is no private land, people can just walk wherever they please".....

Quote:

I have not visited WV in many years, and only briefly (never lived there). And, it was strictly the Mountains. Shandaona Mountains I think? It was beautiful. Great hiking. I don't remember much about any towns or cities there.... But, I remember the mountains being beautiful.

Quote:

Yes, which thankfully the Supreme Court overturned. We cannot be forced to be religious and have no state religion (the first, and still one of the few countries where this is the case, many of the countries that you idolize actually have state religions)…. In the UK The Church of England has a voting block in parliament and holds extreme power. Much of Europe even if there are "more atheists" religions actually have more official power....

Quote:

I don't agree here.
I don't believe in harassingly religious people.

Its no secret that I find Islam to be the most dangerous religion to humanity. Even so, I would never target or harass any individuals. And, whenever am invited to an event at a Church or Mosque I don't show up and badger everyone about how silly they are or keep my shoes on.... Bad ideas are killed with good ideas. I believe in debate and information. That is why I like discourse. I don't believe we should strive towards harassing religious people in the street, that is not a society I would want to live in.... Being civil, polite, and rational is what wins people over. Harassing religious people just feeds into their conspiracy theory that atheist's are prosecuting them...

Quote:

Its actually a pretty interesting read. Some of the stories are pretty entertaining as far as mythology goes. Most religious people have not read the bible (or Koran). I believe Jews may be the exception to this because they place such a heavy emphasis on religious reading and translations (they are also a very small group compared to Christians and Muslims).

But, in America you can quote some disturbing Bible passages and people roll their eyes and say "yeah you are making that up". I think I posted in another thread that reading the bible was another driver for me towards atheism. I encourage all religious people to read their Holy Texts and see if they still support it as "100% the word of God"..... This is why I think all religions should be taught in school people would read all of the texts and see how A. They are very similar. B. They are barbaric.
But, as with the other thread the Bible (and the Koran) would probably be banned from some schools because of violence and sex lol....

Quote:

Never going to happen. Say that to somebody in the UK and you will cause a riot. Yes, there are some groups that support this, but fringe….
Its their tradition, and it does not harm anyone (it actually brings in more revenue from tours and tourists than it costs to house them from what I have been shown), so its a net gain for the country financially. I do think the House of Lords is absurd. People should not be born into a seat on Parliament, that system needs to go, and I am much more comfortable saying that (that is also where the Church of England holds its seats).

Quote:

Religion is everywhere. Calling religion the fault of the South is bizarre and I can't really counter that because there is no evidence to that.

Quote:

However, for one of the "dumbest" countries we sure do produce most of the technology and medications that most of the world desires?
Without America, GPS and the Internet would not exist (or maybe not until much later)…. Your idea of dumb is misleading.... Yes, we need to improve our State Schools, I am 100% on board. But, we also have the cutting edge Universities and Research Centers in the world. So its a nuance issue to judge how "smart" a country is....

Quote:

WWII was a slaughter fest, especially in the Pacific before the U.S. joined. Japan had total domination to the point where nobody (except in small areas the Soviets) were even trying to fight back.... The Third Riech has all of Europe except for the UK (and a few neutral countries), which was barley holding out thanks to their natural island protection. They were winning both fronts, by large margins… If America never joined, Japan and Germany would dominate the world.

Kuwait was invaded by a neighbor. They are our ally we had a duty to protect them. I know its a popular conspiracy, but not everything is about oil...
However, even if it were: would stabilizing the world economy be worth going to war over? I don't know.... But its an interesting question....

Quote:

Well that would just change the tax burden to more local than Federal. At the end of the day, taxpayers are paying for public schools....



We are #1 in GDP as well. GDP is a pretty powerful identifier....

I don't know if I would say education is the ONLY thing that matters.... But even if you think that:

I would say we are not #1 in education as far as everyone overall. However, we have the best education for those who seek it, most elite universities and research centers exist in America.... Education in my view should be gauged by more than just standardized test scores and number of people who graduate HS, etc... You should also factor in the number of Elite Institutions and research firms that produce most of the research and technology that matters (and on that front we pretty much are the top)… I mean lets be real, America produces almost all new tech and medicine that matters.... (yes there are some other countries but the numbers pale in comparison...)

Though I do agree with you that we need to expand education for everyone. I think that the military needs to lead the charge by making a B.S. obtained for people who enlist as part of their ongoing training (The Marines are actually working on this idea by incorporating the college credits earned from Bootcamp and job training, and required leadership schools into a streamlined degree program).
One of my favorite quotes of Thucydides from the History of the Pelloposian War is (this is paraphrasing so probably slightly off) : "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools"
(Actually I just decided to Google it so that should be right).