Suicide and end of life decisions

I want to start off by saying I don't see suicide as necessarily wrong. Perhaps because I've contemplated it myself several times, which may mean I have some understanding of what a suicide goes through on the way.

But it's something I will very likely never do.

You see, I don't think there's anything to be gained by it. Once you're dead, you're also gone. Finished. You cease to exist. End of story. You won't find peace, tranquility, or anything else because there won't be a you to find anything.

I feel somewhat the same way regarding end of life decisions. Many times people will say "I just want the pain to stop," or something along similar lines such as "I'm tired and I want to give up." Again, the pain wont' stop. Sure, you won't feel it, but you won't feel anything else either. Again, there won't be a you around not to feel pain.

The way some people choosing to end their lives talk, they seem to be expecting something after their deaths. This may be literally so for some religious people and others who believe in an after life. Naturally I do not, but I understand ending one's life is one thinks it will nevertheless continue on some other kind of existence (in fact, if I believed in an after life, I'd probably have gone through with suicide at some point).

That said, everyone will die someday. I do understand choosing to forego cancer treatments when the disease is too far advanced and the chances are grim. it's likely, then, you'll live about as long as with the treatments, but with a better quality of life. Likewise from other terminal conditions. There is much to say for hospice care, too. But that is not ending your life. Rather it is choosing not to prolong it under unpleasant circumstances (BTW I do not condemn those who take every measure and treatment to go on as long as possible).

I find it very hard to imagine non-existence. I don't think it's possible. I know very well I didn't exist for billions of years and will not exist for many billions or trillions more. But I can't imagine it. I can understand it conceptually, but I cannot feel it.

In both cases, suicide and end of life, though, there is something I can grasp.

Not for every circumstance, but for many, suicide means giving up. The decision to give up on a hopeless task can be very liberating. I can see the same in choosing to die when faced with a terminal illness or condition, even by assisted suicide. But, again, after that there will be nothing at all. Forever.

Quote: Nareed

I want to start off by saying I don't see suicide as necessarily wrong. Perhaps because I've contemplated it myself several times, which may mean I have some understanding of what a suicide goes through on the way.

But it's something I will very likely never do.

Same. Thanks for sharing.

My thoughts had some unintended consequences. Losing the fear of death is very liberating. Understanding suicide and realizing you have that control is very liberating. But finding that liberation when I did was... interesting.

I often talk about my motorsports. Much of it was passion, competition, all that good stuff. But many of those incidents were fueled by that liberation. I mean, if life's not worth living, why not go 170mph on a public road? It's very fun and forces you to stop thinking of whatever's got you depressed. It's VERY therapeutic that way. And if it goes wrong, you die. Not much of a discouragement when you wouldn't mind dying anyways. Drugs? Why not? What's the worst that's gonna happen? I'll die? Lol. Whatever.

But I didn't die, and eventually found stuff to live for. Because I get depressed. I'm in it right now and still going down. I dunno when it'll end, I don't know where it'll end, but I know that it will end. And then everything will be sunshine and rainbows again. I can even say that I'm thankful for my depression, as it gives me a periodic dose of perspective. You have a much deeper appreciation of color if you live part of your life in perpetual grey.

I totally get it. Sometimes it's sad, especially the young ones. Because I was that young one, once. All I needed was to make it to that point where I could see and understand that the pain isn't permanent. That's all it took to handle all the future bouts of depression, that knowledge that it will end. Some never get that chance. That's sad. The older ones, that might be worse. Because I know pain. I know what it's like to have no escape from it, to the point it exists even in your dreams. I'm thankful I can still occasionally escape it; perhaps I have some Vicodin to numb it, perhaps I'm too involved in something to feel it, and I get a respite. But for those who can't? Ever?

It's sad. I'm just glad I found an appreciation for my grey.

Quote: Face

I'm in it right now and still going down. I dunno when it'll end, I don't know where it'll end, but I know that it will end..

You sound like a manic depressive. I had
a friend like that. He was either all up
and excited for weeks, or down and
angry and depressed for weeks. He
takes Zoloff or some such now and it
rarely happens anymore.

But the position you're in right now is
depressing to me, it would be to anybody.

Quote: Evenbob

You sound like a manic depressive. I had
a friend like that. He was either all up
and excited for weeks, or down and
angry and depressed for weeks. He
takes Zoloff or some such now and it
rarely happens anymore.

But the position you're in right now is
depressing to me, it would be to anybody.

I've often thought so. Because man, when this grey let's up, I'm going to be positively dancing through life. Happens every time.

But I tried Zoloft. It lowered the highs and raised the lows, yeah... but I hated it. Everything was just "OK". Dog died? OK. Won the lottery? OK. Oh, and you cannot orgasm. This is supposed to be an "anti-depressive"?

I like my way better. Because, like you said, it's my position. It sucks. And it's going to get worse. A lot worse. And then... it'll be over. And when it's over, things will be good indeed.

I have patience. I'll use it.

Quote: Face

I like my way better. Because, like you said, it's my position. It sucks. And it's going to get worse.

That's exactly what Zoloft does to him,
life is just blah now. But it's better this
way and he knows it.

Don't mean to be condescending, but
you don't know how young you really
are. I thought I was all grown up in my
30's too. As you get older things change.
Never assume till you're about 50 that
you don't have changes in who you are
ahead.

Quote: Evenbob

That's exactly what Zoloft does to him,
life is just blah now. But it's better this
way and he knows it.

Better for him, maybe. Maybe if my ups and downs were more extreme and caused me to act out, it'd be right for me. But they don't and it isn't. Zoloft was a terrible experience for me. Very close to horrifying it was to "feel nothing".

Quote: EvenBob

Don't mean to be condescending, but
you don't know how young you really
are. I thought I was all grown up in my
30's too. As you get older things change.
Never assume till you're about 50 that
you don't have changes in who you are
ahead.

It's not condescending. It's the truth.

You could go through my posts and find contradictions aplenty. My beliefs, my values, they evolve. As I get older, I learn new things. My beliefs and values must change to accommodate them, otherwise you end up a crazy person.

That's why I always reflect and take personal inventory. It's sort of my way to not let myself get away from myself. And it allows me to cope with the ups and downs of life. Who knows? Maybe I'll be a Bible thumping, anti-gun vegan before DT fades into obscurity.

Lol. Yeah right. But I accept that it could happen.

I wonder what it's like to "solidify". I wonder who I'll be when it happens.

Quote: Face

I wonder what it's like to "solidify". I wonder who I'll be when it happens.

You eventually get tired of going over
the same crap, trying to change the same
crap, and you accept it as part of you.
Good or bad, it's you, and you learn to
live with it. The biggest thing that's never
changed for me is I have always had a
love of reading and learning and a great
curiosity about things. Google is like
a magic genie for me.

I suffer a great deal from depression.
It really concerns me because my Father committed suicide in the prime of his life.
It wasn't in haste , he wrote a letter to me and my sister, a letter to his Mom and to my mother and also, believe it or not, Ayn Rand.
He slit his wrists and he actually wrote while he was passing out and away.
He did it in his state vehicle. He worked for the State so he had a state vehicle.
Apparently it was more painful then he thought it would be, well that's what he wrote. Its all upstairs packed away but I doubt I'll look at that piece of paper again for the rest of my life.
It scares me because we are a lot alike.
His was totally out of the blue. Nobody saw it coming except me and I was totally shocked.
The night before, he was driving me to a after hours DR appointment.
We were late and eventually turned around, he told me "I'm just so depressed I cant function."
I just thought, well lets go home and tomorrow will be a better day.
Happened about a week after the Jonestown tragedy. I always wondered if that pushed him a little knowing hundreds committed suicide.

Oh well. I am pretty sure I will make it. Suffering depression, it was a small victory to pass him in age. He did it in his mid 40's, I'm 56.
Yet I worry.
Have seen Doctors regarding my depression.
They put me on medication, I hated it. Took myself off it.
My depression effects work sometimes. 1/2 my sick days I use are generally due to depression.
I guess maybe that's why I smoke weed. It really does help me get through the low times.
But eventually I emerge from the darkness every time.
As Bob Dylan sang at the end of "Tangled up in Blue" Just got to keep on keeping on

Quote: Face

My thoughts had some unintended consequences. Losing the fear of death is very liberating. Understanding suicide and realizing you have that control is very liberating. But finding that liberation when I did was... interesting.

I often talk about my motorsports. Much of it was passion, competition, all that good stuff. But many of those incidents were fueled by that liberation. I mean, if life's not worth living, why not go 170mph on a public road? It's very fun and forces you to stop thinking of whatever's got you depressed. It's VERY therapeutic that way. And if it goes wrong, you die. Not much of a discouragement when you wouldn't mind dying anyways. Drugs? Why not? What's the worst that's gonna happen? I'll die? Lol. Whatever.

But I didn't die, and eventually found stuff to live for. Because I get depressed. I'm in it right now and still going down. I dunno when it'll end, I don't know where it'll end, but I know that it will end. And then everything will be sunshine and rainbows again. I can even say that I'm thankful for my depression, as it gives me a periodic dose of perspective. You have a much deeper appreciation of color if you live part of your life in perpetual grey.

I totally get it. Sometimes it's sad, especially the young ones. Because I was that young one, once. All I needed was to make it to that point where I could see and understand that the pain isn't permanent. That's all it took to handle all the future bouts of depression, that knowledge that it will end. Some never get that chance. That's sad. The older ones, that might be worse. Because I know pain. I know what it's like to have no escape from it, to the point it exists even in your dreams. I'm thankful I can still occasionally escape it; perhaps I have some Vicodin to numb it, perhaps I'm too involved in something to feel it, and I get a respite. But for those who can't? Ever?

It's sad. I'm just glad I found an appreciation for my grey.

Face, you consistently articulate what I feel all the time myself. It's nice to know I'm not alone in my grief. These anonymous forums can be helpful for us all.

Quote: terapined

I suffer a great deal from depression.
It really concerns me because my Father committed suicide in the prime of his life.
It wasn't in haste , he wrote a letter to me and my sister, a letter to his Mom and to my mother and also, believe it or not, Ayn Rand.
He slit his wrists and he actually wrote while he was passing out and away.
He did it in his state vehicle. He worked for the State so he had a state vehicle.
Apparently it was more painful then he thought it would be, well that's what he wrote. Its all upstairs packed away but I doubt I'll look at that piece of paper again for the rest of my life.
It scares me because we are a lot alike.
His was totally out of the blue. Nobody saw it coming except me and I was totally shocked.
The night before, he was driving me to a after hours DR appointment.
We were late and eventually turned around, he told me "I'm just so depressed I cant function."
I just thought, well lets go home and tomorrow will be a better day.
Happened about a week after the Jonestown tragedy. I always wondered if that pushed him a little knowing hundreds committed suicide.

Oh well. I am pretty sure I will make it. Suffering depression, it was a small victory to pass him in age. He did it in his mid 40's, I'm 56.
Yet I worry.
Have seen Doctors regarding my depression.
They put me on medication, I hated it. Took myself off it.
My depression effects work sometimes. 1/2 my sick days I use are generally due to depression.
I guess maybe that's why I smoke weed. It really does help me get through the low times.
But eventually I emerge from the darkness every time.
As Bob Dylan sang at the end of "Tangled up in Blue" Just got to keep on keeping on

Jesus Christ, terapined. I'm so sorry for your loss. Reading this reminds me what I'd be leaving behind. Thanks for telling the story.

Quote: terapined

I guess maybe that's why I smoke weed. It really does help me get through the low times.

Gotta be careful with that one.

I'm sure you are.

But I got lost in it a bit in the beginning. Because it does take your cares away. It's great at that. It's a fantastic ally when your "cares" are misplaced and/or mischievous. Like depression. There's no real problem, your brain chemistry is just off. It's a good filler to get through the hard times.

But it also takes real cares away. Like bills, or a job, or school, or any other productive thing you know you should be doing. In these cases pot still helps you forget, but the source of the problem always remains.

Oh, and by "beginning", I mean "my first ten years of use". I didn't really figure this out until I quit, sad to say =/