Comparative bureaucracy

I'd be interested to learn how bureaucracies work in different parts of the world. I've a feeling I'll find Mexican bureaucracies aren't as bad as Mexicans think they are.

Let's start with passports.

In Mexico you go online, or call a toll-free number, find the requirements, the places available, and the costs. Next you set up an appointment.

Now, here I stumbled badly.

To get the appointment you first enter the following:

Name
Phone number
Passport number (if renewing it)
National ID number

Then you get a list of places sorted by state. I thought from there you got a list of places in that state. Well, if you choose "Mexico" the assumption is you mean the central office for Mexico State, located in the city of Toluca. The other places in the state are listed by municipality (about the equivalent of a county in the US). But I found that out after I'd made an appointment. I had to call the next day, during business hours, to cancel it before I could get a new one.

If we overlook that, the process is rather simple. The requirements are:

The old passport
A copy of the old passport (the page with the photo, and the page with the number)
2 Passport-size photos, non-digital (No idea what that means. I get them taken at a small stationery shop downstairs of the passport area, it costs $3)
The payment for the passport (it's deposited to any of a number of banks)
A filled-out form requesting the renewal (this one you fill out at the passport office)

Once you fill out the form you take it to the first window. Someone there will stamp your fingerprints on the form. Then you go sit down at the waiting area. When your name's called, you go to the second window, where your prints are taken again (electronically this time), and your photo is taken (so why do they need me to bring photos to begin with??). You go back to the waiting area. Your name eventually gets called again. You go to the third window, where they hand you the new passport as well as the old one. the latter has two holes punched on the cover, and the word "CANCELED" stamped inside. My old passport also has the US visa glued to it, so I need to keep it until it expires in 2022.

I was allowed in at around 8:20, despite my appointment being for 9:00 (it seems there are a lot of no-shows). I was handed the new passport at 10:15.

Even with the redundant pictures and no means of filling the form online or in advance, it strikes me as very efficient.

Now, some passport offices don't give you the passport the same day, but do so 3 or 5 days later. I've never had my passport issued at one such, though one is 2 miles from my house, so I can't comment on that.

The passport's dated the same day as the appointment, therefore you could travel that very day if you had to.

In the USA there are 38 countries whose citizens can visit without a visa. Canada and Mexico have unique programs. The only country in the Americas right now is Chile (with Argentina and Brazil under consideration). The only Muslim nation is Brunei. The EU does not have blanket permission, but countries are chosen on a country by country basis (Polish people must apply for a visa for instance).

Mexico does not list the waiver countries, but instead lists 132 countries whose citizens must apply for a visa. The entry list is much more lenient than the USA list, as any European can visit with just a passport (only citizens of Russia and Turkey require visas). Also Mexico accepts a valid visa from the United States of America (so an Ethiopian on visa visit to USA can visit Mexico without applying for a Mexican visa). Most of the countries in Africa and Asia are on the list.

Citizens of these countries in the Americas must have a visa to visit Mexico
El Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Nicaragua
Central American countries of Belize, Costa Rica and Panama have visa requirement waived

Spanish speaking nations
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Ecuador

English,French, Dutch nations
Antigua y Barbuda
Dominica
Grenada
Haiti
Saint Christopher and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Surinam

Where can you go with a Mexican passport only where no visa is required?

Quote: Pacomartin

Where can you go with a Mexican passport only where no visa is required?

No idea. Hell, I didn't even know Mexico required a visa from anyone. I know Canada requires one now, and that's a recent development.

In the 80s I travelled to Canada, England and Israel without any kind of visa required. I don't' know other than Canada whether that's changed since.

Quote: Nareed

I'd be interested to learn how bureaucracies work in different parts of the world.

I don't know all the different ways to do it, but I know how I did it. So I guess I can share =)

I got mine at the post office. I did have to call as not all offices offer the full service. Some, like my tiny town, don't have all the equipment. So I had to drive to where I play hockey, a pleasurable 25min drive through the country with no traffic. No big deal.

All I needed was a valid driver's license and my birth certificate. I had to fill out their paperwork, which basically amounted to personal info plus, I think, criminal record and things of that nature. I don't remember exactly, but I do remember it's not nearly as time consuming and frustrating as a job application. Hand in the app and my particulars along with some cash (don't remember exactly, but somewhere between $50 and $80). After that, they pulled me in back to take my pic with some ancient contraption that looked like a giant Polaroid Instamatic connected to a computer straight out of 1957 by a cable at least an inch thick =p

And that was literally it. Took me maybe 20 minutes. I think they said expect to wait up to 4-7 weeks, but I got it in the mail in about 17 days.

Considering this is the gov, I was staggered by their efficiency.

Quote: Face

I don't know all the different ways to do it, but I know how I did it. So I guess I can share =)

I got mine at the post office. I did have to call as not all offices offer the full service. Some, like my tiny town, don't have all the equipment. So I had to drive to where I play hockey, a pleasurable 25min drive through the country with no traffic. No big deal.

All I needed was a valid driver's license and my birth certificate. I had to fill out their paperwork, which basically amounted to personal info plus, I think, criminal record and things of that nature. I don't remember exactly, but I do remember it's not nearly as time consuming and frustrating as a job application. Hand in the app and my particulars along with some cash (don't remember exactly, but somewhere between $50 and $80). After that, they pulled me in back to take my pic with some ancient contraption that looked like a giant Polaroid Instamatic connected to a computer straight out of 1957 by a cable at least an inch thick =p

And that was literally it. Took me maybe 20 minutes. I think they said expect to wait up to 4-7 weeks, but I got it in the mail in about 17 days.

Considering this is the gov, I was staggered by their efficiency.

I believe for an extra hundred bucks or so they will process it "rush", which only takes 3-5 wks.

Quote: Face

After that, they pulled me in back to take my pic with some ancient contraption that looked like a giant Polaroid Instamatic connected to a computer straight out of 1957 by a cable at least an inch thick =p

I'm reminded of giant Polaroid cameras which were used to make credit card sized IDs like school ID cards or driver's licenses. One model combined a photo of the document, inserted inside the camera, and the subject.

Quote:

And that was literally it. Took me maybe 20 minutes. I think they said expect to wait up to 4-7 weeks, but I got it in the mail in about 17 days.

All in all, I'd rather spend 2 hours on it and get the passport right away (especially as otherwise those 2 hours would be spent at work).

In the 90s there was much criticism that all things involving government required people showing up at an office and waiting in line. Much was made of the fact that in the US many of these things, like renewing a license, could be done by mail. I think the reluctance of doing things by mail helped push along the idea of delivering the documents in a short time.