Legalization of sin and vice

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August 25th, 2015 at 1:23:59 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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(FrGamble will probably (hate or like) the title.)

Anyway, why after all this time has the drug legalization argument that it would reduce more problems than it creates not caught on?

I know there are people on all sides of the political spectrum for and against. I recall Obama didn't react favorably to legalization of marijuana. There's a conservative bent toward resisting vices. At least I always thought the guys who weren't the hippies way back when were the conservatives talking about the bad drug users. There's of course libertarians who favor as such. (although I seem to recall B9 talking like one should be libertarian, but firmly against use of weed -- go figure.)

So why has the argument not caught on? To fight crime by decriminalization of drugs or even other vices. Prostitution.

There is no Amsterdam around here, per say. Mexico and Canada don't have one either (AFAIK)
If your candidate is losing, it's because you didn't put enough flags on your truck.
August 25th, 2015 at 1:26:33 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 149
Posts: 11454
Anyway, I prefer to characterize it as reducing more problems than it creates, rather than make absurd claims for it.
If your candidate is losing, it's because you didn't put enough flags on your truck.
August 25th, 2015 at 1:31:23 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 149
Posts: 11454
OTOH, does legal gambling in Vegas make it a safer crime free place without serious problems?

See, there's that.
If your candidate is losing, it's because you didn't put enough flags on your truck.
August 25th, 2015 at 1:42:23 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 11
Posts: 2463
Quote: rxwine
(FrGamble will probably (hate or like) the title.)

Anyway, why after all this time has the drug legalization argument that it would reduce more problems than it creates not caught on?

I know there are people on all sides of the political spectrum for and against. I recall Obama didn't react favorably to legalization of marijuana. There's a conservative bent toward resisting vices. At least I always thought the guys who weren't the hippies way back when were the conservatives talking about the bad drug users. There's of course libertarians who favor as such. (although I seem to recall B9 talking like one should be libertarian, but firmly against use of weed -- go figure.)

So why has the argument not caught on? To fight crime by decriminalization of drugs or even other vices. Prostitution.

There is no Amsterdam around here, per say. Mexico and Canada don't have one either (AFAIK)


In most places in Canada we have in essence decriminalization of marijuana since there is no or little enforcement. The supreme court keeps tossing out our conservative governments laws against weed. Vancouver is trying hard to be Amsterdam with over 100 dispensaries sell pot. Prostitution is also in limbo since the laws against it have been overruled by the supreme court.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
August 25th, 2015 at 2:04:02 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: kenarman
In most places in Canada we have in essence decriminalization of marijuana since there is no or little enforcement. The supreme court keeps tossing out our conservative governments laws against weed. Vancouver is trying hard to be Amsterdam with over 100 dispensaries sell pot. Prostitution is also in limbo since the laws against it have been overruled by the supreme court.


Yeah, there's plenty of places on the island I can go and get 'medicinal' weed. If I needed to. I prefer hops, myself.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
August 25th, 2015 at 2:07:38 PM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: rxwine
So why has the argument not caught on? To fight crime by decriminalization of drugs or even other vices. Prostitution.

There is no Amsterdam around here, per say. Mexico and Canada don't have one either (AFAIK)


We're not smart enough. Religion stands in the way too.

If we had any sense here in Vegas we would at least have a "red light" district with legal and safe prostitution.

The legalization of recreational marijuana in two states gives me some hope for us.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
August 25th, 2015 at 2:20:19 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: rxwine

Anyway, why after all this time has the drug legalization argument that it would reduce more problems than it creates not caught on?


I'm gonna steal petro's thunder, but the answer is simple - follow the money. How many LEO's laid off, how many prisons closed, how many people out of business without the corrections industry? The US has the largest prison complex in the entire world. More than half are in there for drug offenses. Of the 4mm on probation, a quarter of them have drug charges as the most serious offense. Now, we can argue how productive a stoner is vs a sober person. What is not arguable is how productive a stoner is vs a prisoner bleeding dry the system. It's ~$40k a year for each and every one of them.

Additionally, it is also arguable the results of legalization vs criminalization. Maybe it'll reduce use, maybe it'll increase. We can't guarantee either outcome, and it is debatable. What is absolutely not debatable is that our current system of dealing with drug use has been an abject failure. Over a trillion dollars since Tricky Dick put it into place has gone down the tubes with NO effect on drug availability, NO decrease in usage, and has been the key factor in the rise of the underground. And that trillion spent doesn't even include the billions lost in revenue by taxing and regulating. Imagine if a thousand billion dollars was spent, I don't f#$%ing know, on EDUCATION and TREATMENT. It's not a panacea, but I guaran-damn-tee you'd see more of a positive effect than what we have now. It is, after all, a mental illness. Yet we treat those affected worse than the common thief, at times, worse than murderers and rapists.

Ending the WoD does not fix the drug problem. But it would eliminate a problem that, IMO, has become worse than the problem it aimed to tackle. F#$% the WoD. I dare anyone to defend it.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
August 25th, 2015 at 2:31:03 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
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Quote: rxwine


There is no Amsterdam around here, per say.


Do you actually know what a failure the
drug policy of the Netherlands has been?
They are now jealous of the US because
they're drug policies suck so badly.

'America seems to be learning from Hollandís mistakes. Hollandís passive-aggressive policy doesnít stop illicit activity or drug tourism or make anyone safer, say activists: It actually has the reverse effect. Quasi-legalization leaves too many entry points for criminals to line their own pockets from the drug trade. State by state, the U.S. is legalizing pot with initiatives that clearly spell out who is allowed to manufacture, distribute and consume it. Thatís the key to a successful policy, and itís one Dutch activists are now working to implement in their own country, before things swing too far the other way.'

http://www.newsweek.com/marijuana-and-old-amsterdam-308218
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 25th, 2015 at 2:48:17 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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Quote: Face
What is absolutely not debatable is that our current system of dealing with drug use has been an abject failure.


I'll have more to say alter. For now I want to put things in perspective:

Every headline about drug cartel violence in Colombia in the 90s and in Mexico in the 2000s and 2010s is a direct result of the US war on drugs. All that bloodshed, violence, economic disruptions, etc, are the responsibility of this failed policy.

Isn't it time to stop?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
August 25th, 2015 at 3:45:08 PM permalink
Wizard
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Member since: Oct 23, 2012
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Quote: Nareed
I'll have more to say alter. For now I want to put things in perspective:

Every headline about drug cartel violence in Colombia in the 90s and in Mexico in the 2000s and 2010s is a direct result of the US war on drugs. All that bloodshed, violence, economic disruptions, etc, are the responsibility of this failed policy.

Isn't it time to stop?


Seems you have changed your position on this. When I advocated legalizing drugs, in part to end the drug violence in Mexico, you said that the same people would just resort to crime in other ways.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
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