Why empire building?

Why did China maintain an empire for most of it's history, while Europe formed the Roman Empire and then broke into much smaller countries and fiefdoms?

Is it the people or the geography?


By 1900 China had almost one quarter of the population of the world, and far larger than all of Europe
Qing Empire 415,001,488
Germany 56,000,000
Austria-Hungary 51,356,465
Dutch East Indies (Netherlands) 45,500,000
United Kingdom (Including Ireland) 38,000,000
France 38,000,000
Italy 32,000,000
Spain 20,750,000

One reason is geography. China's empire had comparatively little coastline so had to stay together. Roman Empire broke into little bits that had many usable ports.

Quote: Pacomartin

Why did China maintain an empire for most of it's history, while Europe formed the Roman Empire and then broke into much smaller countries and fiefdoms?

Competition.

(that's a guess)

But if you want to get technical, the Roman Empire lasted until the mid-1400s or so, when Constantinople fell.

Quote: Pacomartin

Why did China maintain an empire for most of it's history, while Europe formed the Roman Empire and then broke into much smaller countries and fiefdoms?

Is it the people or the geography?


By 1900 China had almost one quarter of the population of the world, and far larger than all of Europe
Qing Empire 415,001,488
Germany 56,000,000
Austria-Hungary 51,356,465
Dutch East Indies (Netherlands) 45,500,000
United Kingdom (Including Ireland) 38,000,000
France 38,000,000
Italy 32,000,000
Spain 20,750,000

Hasn't the Chinese empire been through many dynasty and changes and incursions, seperations and recombinations? I think geography is probably a driving factor though for their being a relatively straight narrative.

China had a realization of its wealth and a desire to maintain firm borders. Some spices were misdescribed as to origin so as to make customer think it would be an even more unimaginable burden to attempt to find them rather than buy them. Also mountains make better borders than mere rivers.

Quote: TheCesspit

Hasn't the Chinese empire been through many dynasty and changes and incursions, seperations and recombinations? I think geography is probably a driving factor though for their being a relatively straight narrative.

Yes it has been through some divisions.But it has remained unified for the last 700 years, and for much of it's history before that it was a single empire.



Europe was largely united under the Roman empire by 180 AD.


But by the year 526 was broken into warring kingdoms which are only united by the EU today.

Quote: Pacomartin

But by the year 526 was broken into warring kingdoms which are only united by the EU today.

This is a bit of historical revisionism. The Roman empire collapsed in Western Europe, but it continued in parts of Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East. It's the one labeled "Byzantine Empire" in the second map.

What people fail to understand, too, is the Eastern half of the Empire, including Egypt, was far richer than the Western half.

On paper it lasted until the fall of Constantinople in the XV Century. In actual fact, it was very much diminished in the 7th and 8th Centuries, when the Caliphate took Egypt and much of Mesopotamia. After that it more or lass hobbled on as a regional power til the bitter end.

It's called "Byzantine" today because the old name of Constantinople was Byzantium. But in its day it called itself the Roman Empire, and that's how it was known. Ironically, it had Greek as its official language and had the city of Rome under its rule only briefly.

Quote: Nareed

This is a bit of historical revisionism. The Roman empire collapsed in Western Europe, but it continued in parts of Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East. It's the one labeled "Byzantine Empire" in the second map.

Except for a brief period under Justinian the Great (c. 482 – 14 November 565), the Byzantine Empire (c. 330 – 1453) numbered 7-12 million people. The Roman Empire peaked at population of 57 million. While Europe probably didn't pass 100 million people until the 1500's, the Byzantine Empire could never be said to encompass the majority of people in Europe (with the possible exception of Justinian's rule).

For the majority of history China existed as an empire with relatively brief periods of warring states and disorder. China's population seems to have always been higher than Europe, and it may have passed 100 million five to six centuries before Europe.

Quote: Pacomartin

Except for a brief period under Justinian the Great (c. 482 – 14 November 565), the Byzantine Empire (c. 330 – 1453) numbered 7-12 million people. The Roman Empire peaked at population of 57 million.

The point is history says the Roman Empire fell in the 5th Century only because the remnant of the empire was renamed "Byzantine."

Quote:

For the majority of history China existed as an empire with relatively brief periods of warring states and disorder. China's population seems to have always been higher than Europe, and it may have passed 100 million five to six centuries before Europe.

China, like Egypt, enjoyed natural barriers which kept outsiders outside, and there was the famous Great Wall built to take care of the rest. Rome wasn't so fortunate, though Hadrian greatly benefited his holdings in Britannia with a wall as well.

Egypt was conquered five times. They overthrew the mysterious Hyksos. They were taken over by Alexander to kick out the Persians. And somehow they continued Egyptian culture past its expiration point. When Rome took over, it finally ended the rule of the Pharaohs. Finally they were taken again by Persians, only this time they were incorporated to an Islamic empire; by then Egypt was largely Christian and no longer built temples or tombs in the traditional manner anyway.

China is next on my list. Perhaps next month when Mike Duncan takes a break between revolutions.