Las Vegas airport

Quote: Wizard

Nice to know it isn't just us that run horribly over-budget and behind schedule on huge government projects.

The type of projects they are talking about in the USA are going to be amazing. Build a second airport in Vegas. Tear down and almost completely rebuild all the airports in NYC. Unbelievable! I mean $4 billion just to rebuild La Guardia. Rebuilding the terminals in Newark could cost as much as $5 billion.


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Do you know one out of eight passengers in the USA flies out of the Southwest Airports? The four big ones LAX, LAS, PHX, SAN and the four smaller ones SNA, ONT, BUR, LGB . Some people would love to see one giant airport in the desert (to compete with the Dubai plans) and high speed trains connecting the Southwest. That way the airport would be integrated with the transit hub for intercity travel throughout the Southwest.

Of course Dubai is not content building an airport for a quarter of a billion passengers a year, they want to build a new city called "Dubai South"
http://dubaisouth.ae/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/09/10/dubais-bold-plan-to-build-the-worlds-biggest-airport/15376795/

Quote: Pacomartin

Build a second airport in Vegas.

I have no idea why we need a second one. Terminal three is huge and seems to operate at a small fraction of capacity -- I'd guess 25%. Terminal two is completely empty as far as know.

I hope somebody in Washington is thinking about both the costs and benefits of these things.

Quote: Wizard

I have no idea why we need a second one. Terminal three is huge and seems to operate at a small fraction of capacity -- I'd guess 25%. Terminal two is completely empty as far as know.

I hope somebody in Washington is thinking about both the costs and benefits of these things.

Is LAS any kind of hub?

Airports spread a lot of graft around. PIT was mighty for about 10 years, a model of airports when the new terminal was built. It now sits half-empty. With the USA being down to 4 trunk carriers why on earth do we need new airports?

Quote: Wizard

I have no idea why we need a second one.

Because in government you need to spend money in order to get more money next fiscal year.

I wonder how many studies are done just to spend money on studies so there will be a bigger budget for studies next year.

Quote:

Terminal two is completely empty as far as know.

Terminal 2 is closed.

Quote: AZDuffman

Is LAS any kind of hub?

There are no hard statistics on the number of origin and destination passengers at an airport, but as near as I can tell, for large airports they range from nearly zero (at Orlando MCO) to close to 50% (at Dallas Fort Worth). Las Vegas is under 20% passengers who are merely connecting. Effectively the only passengers who connect in Las Vegas are on Southwest airlines

Quote: Wizard

I have no idea why we need a second one.
I hope somebody in Washington is thinking about both the costs and benefits of these things.

Outside of the airports near Washington DC, the FAA is usually restricted to an advisory role. The US senate intervened in the case of DFW and Dallas Love Field, by severely restricting the range of flights from Love Field for a period of decades. The FAA advised San Antonio and Austin to build a common airport midway between the cities (advice both cities rejected). But as far as Las Vegas airport goes, the Federal government has no final authority. The call to build a second airport in Vegas is coming from local authorities.

The Canadian federal government tries to build a secondary airport at Montreal in the 1960's, and it was a costly disaster. The US federal government authorized the building of Dulles airport, and they had to subsidize it drastically for 20 years until it could compete with National.

All other construction projects of new airports at such as Denver, Dallas, Austin, Tampa, (off the top of my head) were authorized by local government and paid for by bonds. In every case except Dallas the old airport was completely closed when the new airport opened. There is usually a call to keep the old airport open for some kind of limited flights (often times regional aircraft only). These proposals are always rejected.


The idea in Vegas of capping the current airport at some kind of maximum and slowly building up the new airport doesn't work unless you have unlimited funds (like the federal government and Dulles airport).

It is my personal belief that the major carriers will simply abandon Las Vegas if they are required to move to a secondary airport. It is a very hypothetical statement as no major carrier has ever abandoned a major airport. If you ask Southwest to move to a secondary airport, they will threaten to leave, and the Vegas authority figures will pressure Airport officials to back off as the city will go bankrupt without Southwest Airlines.

Carrier Shares for August 2014 - July 2015
44.66% Southwest 17,175
8.83% United 3,396
8.78% Delta 3,378
7.50% American 2,885
6.46% Spirit 2,485
23.77% Other 9,140
Based on enplaned passengers(000) both arriving and departing.

What they did in Montreal was force all the international flights to land at the secondary airport. The airlines responded by flying to Toronto instead of Montreal, and eventually pushed Montreal to second place as Canada's eastern airport. Of the four major airports in Canada, Montreal is #4.

1 Toronto Pearson International Airport
2 Vancouver International Airport
3 Calgary International Airport
4 Montréal–Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport

One great thing about Vegas is the airport is near the center of the city. I've heard chatter about a new airport being built near Primm, which is 40 miles from the Strip. Every passenger will complain about it.

Personally, if we must spend taxpayer money on huge projects, I'd rather see it going to rail travel. It is so nice in Europe to easily travel by train anywhere at cheap prices.

Quote: Wizard

I've heard chatter about a new airport being built near Primm, which is 40 miles from the Strip. Every passenger will complain about it.

Can you imagine the cab fares?? I can see full service airlines offer helicopter transfers to the Strip for business class passengers.

Quote:

Personally, if we must spend taxpayer money on huge projects, I'd rather see it going to rail travel. It is so nice in Europe to easily travel by train anywhere at cheap prices.

Passenger rail works in Europe because it's relatively small, compact and densely populated. It works well in the American Northeast for the same reason. Also in Japan. But the US West is spread out, sprawling and thinly populated except for some major cities.

Central Mexico looks very much like prime high speed rail terrain, but 1) there's stiff competition from bus lines (far from high speed) and 2) the government tends to place train stations at rather inconvenient locations. What good would it do to offer 1 hour rides to Queretaro (vs 2.5 hours by car), if getting to the train station takes 90 minutes?

Quote: Wizard

I have no idea why we need a second one. Terminal three is huge and seems to operate at a small fraction of capacity -- I'd guess 25%.

I believe terminal three is only 14 gates.

Quote: DRich

I believe terminal three is only 14 gates.

15 :)

That's the E gates. There's also access to the D gates, which number 50. But I don't know whether those are T3 or T1.

Here's a link:

https://www.mccarran.com/Fly/MyJourneyMap.aspx?location=OVERVIEW&~

Quote: Nareed

15 :)

Huge building for only 15 gates. I guess I stand corrected. I also didn't know there was a way to get from the D gates to Terminal 3 without using a bus. Actually, I've suspected it before, but have never actually seen such a passage or even signage for it.