Highest Murder Rate for cities in the world

Quote: AZDuffman

I suppose 4 cities isn't going to turn us into Switzerland, but as anyone who has managed people or things knows, you try to fix the worst person or branch first. Ironically, when you start to fix crime, however, you hit the little things first as NYC showed in the 1990s.

Yep, you did indeed fix the biggest problems first. I was curious as to the overall effect on the nation. Of course, the HOW is always up for debate.

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So this begs a question, would these 4 cities follow the broken-window theory? The Baltimore mayor in particular seems to be against this kind of policing.

The broken windows policy is very much up for debate. Low tolerance for run down is the step towards the Housing Association rule-lawyering that requires YOU to fix your private property for the good of the community. It also led to a lot of stop and search for the reason of looking undesirable... which is state interference in the private life, which I am sure you'd prefer not to happen. Private citizen rights include being able to walk down a street not looking like you fit in (according to some persons view).

Freakonomics suggests that better access to birth control actually led to the lowering rates of crime, not the Broken Window policy.

Now, zero-tolerance for crimes committed, and better prosecution rates is another way of doing it. I've wondered what would happen if occasionally the effort made to solve a murder was put into a simple B&E would be worth the time. Low rates of detection and prosecution appears to be an incentive to commit crime for some.

In short... not sure it's the solution, but may be it is.

Quote: TheCesspit

The broken windows policy is very much up for debate. Low tolerance for run down is the step towards the Housing Association rule-lawyering that requires YOU to fix your private property for the good of the community. It also led to a lot of stop and search for the reason of looking undesirable... which is state interference in the private life, which I am sure you'd prefer not to happen. Private citizen rights include being able to walk down a street not looking like you fit in (according to some persons view).

Freakonomics suggests that better access to birth control actually led to the lowering rates of crime, not the Broken Window policy.

I've heard the Freakonomics thing but I'm not buying it. You can trace the fall in NYC crime to Rudy and there was not the same drop nationwide. It was also a very steep drop, Freakanomics theory would happen slower as crime-age seems to be about 17-29 or so.

Stop-and-search undesirables is mixed. It does invade some privacy, but it works. Needs to be done with good community policing because really a beat cop can tell most times who is a troublemaker. It's the old "why ya hassling me?!" thing. Answer is "because I am usually right when I do!" Hassle gangs when they cause trouble and maybe they will move on.

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In short... not sure it's the solution, but may be it is.

Well what is not the solution is more of the same. Ont thing I think is needed is expect better behavior. So many in these places think that their crazy community is normal.

Quote: AZDuffman

I've heard the Freakonomics thing but I'm not buying it. You can trace the fall in NYC crime to Rudy and there was not the same drop nationwide. It was also a very steep drop, Freakanomics theory would happen slower as crime-age seems to be about 17-29 or so.

Yeah, I'm not 100% convinced, but it is interesting.

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Stop-and-search undesirables is mixed. It does invade some privacy, but it works.

Yes, but so does vaccinations across a wide range of people. It works, but it invades privacy.

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Needs to be done with good community policing because really a beat cop can tell most times who is a troublemaker. It's the old "why ya hassling me?!" thing. Answer is "because I am usually right when I do!" Hassle gangs when they cause trouble and maybe they will move on.

Pretty much I'd agree. Feet on the street is a good answer, and removal of the cops who take delight in playing tough guys. There's only a few, sure, but as one internet cartoon says, bad apples spoil the whole crop.

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Well what is not the solution is more of the same. Ont thing I think is needed is expect better behavior. So many in these places think that their crazy community is normal.

You can expect it, but it's not necessarily legislatively possible, without increasing the scope of the law... and well, I know you don't want that.

Quote: TheCesspit

... but as one internet cartoon says, bad apples spoil the whole crop.

Internet cartoon? That saying may be over 700 years old.

#24 Desert Hot Springs, CA was a surprise. I thought only retirees and artsy homosexuals lived in this little community in the boonies near Palm Springs. Apparently, there are some really violent happenings for a town of 28,000 people.

Quote: Pacomartin

Internet cartoon? That saying may be over 700 years old.

Yeah. I needed to refer to the source me me to make my point better.

Quote: TheCesspit

You can expect it, but it's not necessarily legislatively possible, without increasing the scope of the law... and well, I know you don't want that.

I'm not really talking having to make laws. It is hard to describe but anyone who has gotten inside some of these areas (social workers, service repairmen, etc) knows what I mean. I will give an example. 1990s WSJ article.

In the 1990s there was a move to close the huge, 1960s styled dense high-rise public housing. The government tried to give some counseling. The quoted person said 1/3 of the people could live on their own but just needed a kick to get them to do so. 1/3 probably could but needed counseling. And 1/3 were hopeless. The middle 1/3 was where they put focus.

They had to be told simple stuff. Like kids don't bounce your basketball off the walls. (cement block in public housing allowed this.) Don't make noise late during the week, your neighbors work. This is what a neat place looks like.

Now, this does not make a person a criminal. But it shows the lower standards a population gets used to. This whole underclass lives and accepts things most people never would. Then when the cops do actually do something you get the whole "cops is hassling us!" lines. Not that there are not bad cops, but this is reality.

Ironically, these folks hate the gentrification of their neighborhoods as it drive them out. (seen it!) So the problem is not simple.

Quote: Ayecarumba

#24 Desert Hot Springs, CA was a surprise. I thought only retirees and artsy homosexuals lived in this little community in the boonies near Palm Springs. Apparently, there are some really violent happenings for a town of 28,000 people.

About 22.4% of families and 27.5% of the population were below the poverty line, including 37.1% of those under age 18 and 15.0% of those age 65 or over, one of the highest for cities over 10,000 in southern California.

On the other hand these small communities have murder rate easily affected by a few murders. Raw data is 7 murders in 2014, but the city only had 2 murders in 2013. It could be a mass murder involved in a drive by.

I'm not saying it is a safe community with high poverty rates, but it's status as one of the top 30 murder rate cities probably comes and goes from year to year.

Rank	Community	Murders	Population	One out of:
24	Desert Hot Springs	7	28,164	4,023
23	Compton	25	98,597	3,944
22	Myrtle Beach, SC	8	29,992	3,749
1	East St. Louis	27	26,672	988

Compton has better publicity

Compton's reputation is deserved. Things were so bad, the city's police department was disbanded due to corruption. The only reason things got better was because California passed "Three Strikes" legislation that mandated long prison sentences for felony offenders. Recently, the tide has changed to lighten up on these mandatory sentences.

My prediction: Lawlessness will increase and more people are going to die.