Cash withdrawal limits

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July 6th, 2016 at 12:24:25 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 648
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miplet : over the counter = ATM * 10
DRich: ATM withdrawals are twice bank withdrawals.
terapined: ATM 3X
odiousgambit: ATM withdrawals are somewhere between 4 to 5 times as common
kenarman: ATM's by a 5 to 1 ratio.
Ayecarumba: ATM at a 100:1 ratio

It is not clear if some answers are talking about number or value of cash withdrawals. I think it is obvious that the number of ATM withdrawals are higher, but the answers are widely disparate about the ratio.

Certainly ATM's have a higher number of transactions by ~ 2.76X, but OTC withdrawals were on average 6X as high. So OTC won by a factor of 2.2X .

$687 billion / 5.8 billion withdrawals = $118 on average for ATM
$1502 billion / 2.1 billion withdrawals = $715 on average for "over the counter"

reference: page 49
https://www.frbservices.org/files/communications/pdf/general/121614_2013_fed_res_paymt_study_combined_exhibits.pdf

Circulation levels of principal banknotes in 2012 were
$148.9 billion $20 banknotes
$72.5 billion $50 banknotes
$863.1 billion $100 banknotes

So every $20 banknote must have (on average) been through an ATM machine more than 4X. I am assuming a relatively small percentage of ATMs are stocked with banknotes other than a $20.

That answer surprised me as well.


July 6th, 2016 at 1:09:58 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 648
Posts: 7426
Quote: Nareed
I've never run across limits in Mexico. Though if you want a large amount, you'd best arrange ahead or the bank won't have the actual cash on hand to handle it.


In Mexico the 500 peso=US$26.60 note is the only realistic way to make a large cash withdrawal.
The Bank of Mexico circulates 13 or 14 of these notes per capita in Mexico, while the USA circulates about 26-27 $20 banknotes per capita.

So while a US$2600 cash withdrawal would end up with 26 Benjamins, you would need a hundred 500 peso notes. I am not sure what would be the point where it makes sense to book ahead with a Mexican bank.

The BOM seems to have given up on the 1000 peso banknote, as it's circulation has remained at 80-83 million notes since September 2014. Although the denomination was introduced in November 2004, it has never caught on in popularity.
July 6th, 2016 at 1:58:53 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 301
Posts: 10009
Quote: Pacomartin
In Mexico the 500 peso=US$26.60 note is the only realistic way to make a large cash withdrawal.


There's a 1,000 peso note, but very few businesses will take it, to the point of actual idiocy. Banks can't give them away fast enough when they have any.

Quote:
I am not sure what would be the point where it makes sense to book ahead with a Mexican bank.


It depends. there are banks in some places which handle very large amounts of cash. At those branches, you can make really large withdrawals without calling ahead.

BTW Mexican ATMs have a daily withdrawal limit per account, usually set at 4-6 thousand pesos. And it doesn't matter if it's your bank's ATM or another bank's. Once you reach the limit, you're cut off. This was done to avoid so-called express kidnappings, where the victim got driven to several ATMs, usually late at night, to empty their bank account.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
July 6th, 2016 at 2:26:29 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 79
Posts: 1234
It seems clear that business transactions are the key teller transaction. ATM's can't handle those types of transactions (like rolled coins). I don't see that ever going away though. Standing near a strong magnet won't change the money in your pocket, unless it is on a card.
July 6th, 2016 at 2:33:12 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 34
Posts: 2625
Quote: Ayecarumba
It seems clear that business transactions are the key teller transaction. ATM's can't handle those types of transactions (like rolled coins). I don't see that ever going away though. Standing near a strong magnet won't change the money in your pocket, unless it is on a card.


I pay for everything with a credit card
but
Always have about 200 dollars in my wallet. a 100 bill and 5 20's so thin wad, 6 notes
Power or communications goes out, I still want to be able to buy
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
July 6th, 2016 at 3:58:03 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 79
Posts: 1234
Quote: terapined
I pay for everything with a credit card
but
Always have about 200 dollars in my wallet. a 100 bill and 5 20's so thin wad, 6 notes
Power or communications goes out, I still want to be able to buy


Wise.

The loss of anonymity is a troubling outcome of the rise in card purchases. It may be convenient, but should "Big Brother" be able to track all your transactions and spending habits? I am sure the IRS and Homeland are already doing it, but it's Amazon and Wal-Mart that actually know how to monetize the information.
July 6th, 2016 at 5:04:40 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 648
Posts: 7426
Quote: Björn Ulvaeus -sign outside ABBA museum in Stockholm
I challenge anyone to come up with reasons to keep cash that outweigh the enormous benefits of getting rid of it. Imagine the worldwide suffering because of crime, from drug dealing to bicycle theft. Crime that requires cash. The Swedish krona is a small currency, used only in Sweden. This is the ideal place to start the biggest crime-preventing scheme ever. We could and should be the first cashless society in the world.


The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention counted only 23 bank robberies in 2014, down 70 percent from a decade earlier. In the same period, muggings dropped 10 percent.



Quote: Ayecarumba
The loss of anonymity is a troubling outcome of the rise in card purchases.

Cash free advocates argue that it is a small thing to go give up. Loss of anonymity is a byproduct of modern computerized society anyway.

The 1000 kronor bill at the end of 2001 had 48.358 million pieces circulating. As of today there are only 2.337 million banknotes circulating in this denomination.
The 500 kronor bill at the end of 2014 had 114.4 million pieces circulating. As of today there are only 83.4 million banknotes circulating in this denomination.

All 83.4 million of these notes will cease to be legal tender as of 30 June 2017. It remains to be seen how many of the new series is printed by the government. If the government only prints 20 million of the new 500kr banknotes for a population of 10 million, the ATMs will have to switch to the smaller denomination of 200kr.

The total amount of cash you can withdraw from an ATM is also being increasingly restricted. In 2007, the common limit was SEK 10,000 (approx. $1200 USD) per withdrawal, with a maximum amount of SEK 25,000 (approx. $3000 USD) within four days. One could also freely choose the withdrawal amount up to that limit.

Today, the most common limit is between SEK 1000 and SEK 2000 (approx. $120 and $240 USD) per withdrawal, with a weekly limit of SEK 5000 to SEK 20,000 (approx. $600 to $2400 USD).

The ability to freely choose your amount has now been removed, and a message has been added on the ATM screen advising customers that money can now be withdrawn at the grocery store.

As this is an experiment in world finance . In a perfect world the people will happily switch to credit cards and SWISH each other electronic payments via their cell phones. Cash registers will be pulled out of most stores and gas stations. The economy will flourish with a new found efficiency, and cash will be just for tourists, children, rural dwellers and a few old people.

However, it is unlikely that the Swedish government will make the 500kr and 1000kr invalid. Should the zombie apocalypse come, or if a giant electromagnetic pulse hit Sweden, or real estate values collapse, or widespread bank failures happen like in Iceland, they always have the option of circulating more bills. Other possibilities are the widespread adoption of bitcoin, Norwegian paper currency or even of Euros for domestic transactions which will make the government opt to issue more banknotes.

The simplest problem is a whole generation raised largely free of physical cash will be more likely to spend themselves into bankruptcy.


I actually wrote to Riksbank to ask why they don't put production numbers on their website like most Central Banks. They said they consider it a state secret, as they don't want people to know how many banknotes are available in case of emergency.

Quote: Nareed
There's a 1,000 peso note, but very few businesses will take it, to the point of actual idiocy. Banks can't give them away fast enough when they have any.


As I said earlier it took Bank of Mexico 10 years to go from zero to 81 million pieces in circulation. But they seem to have given up on increasing circulation in the last 2 years.

Russia and Mexico have the same GDP per person using nominal exchange rates, but the 5000 ruble note is widely used in Russia.

1,000 RUB = 291 MXN
5,000 RUB = 1452 MXN
1,720 RUB= 500 MXN = $26.65

It is possible that the government doesn't want any high denomination bills in Mexican Society. Although new denominations take a while to be accepted in some countries, the nearly 12 years for Mexican 1000 peso denomination seems like an adequate time. At least you would think that they would have more circulation in Mexico City.
July 7th, 2016 at 4:35:28 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 47
Posts: 3985
ATMs will get more use now that they accept deposits in any amount and checks.
Also banks now have smart phone apps... you don'teven have to go to the atm to make a deposit.
ATMs now have 20s and 50s.
July 7th, 2016 at 6:51:34 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 301
Posts: 10009
Quote: Pacomartin
As I said earlier it took Bank of Mexico 10 years to go from zero to 81 million pieces in circulation. But they seem to have given up on increasing circulation in the last 2 years.


The best way to think of the 1,000 peso note is as Mexico's equivalent to the US one dollar coin.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
July 7th, 2016 at 7:06:40 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 12
Posts: 1654
Quote: Pacomartin

As this is an experiment in world finance .....The simplest problem is a whole generation raised largely free of physical cash will be more likely to spend themselves into bankruptcy.
If they don't, then the government will do it for them. : )

Quote:
....The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention counted only 23 bank robberies in 2014, down 70 percent from a decade earlier. In the same period, muggings dropped 10 percent.
Just like the west, they can get statistics to say what benefits them. We all know when the 2016 rates are tabulated there will be a large increase in the rape #'s. In '14, rape was up 11%, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

As far as monetary crime goes, the largest theft goes unreported as a crime. http://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/sweden/inflation-sweden.aspx So the whole value of their money is being stolen while reporting the "advantages" of digital exchange.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
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